The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
Joe Baldacchino Australia (Verified User) Posts 561 Dogs 6 / Races 2 20 Nov 2015 08:12
(0)
(0)
Jade Norris' claim to fame as a Vet was as a Locum in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, hardly riveting and definitely not enough to classify her as an expert. She's a refugee from the front line, after the easy bucks, no more no less. Both her and Arnott are living in La La Land. Funnily enough, one of them, can't remember which one, said that you usually reward a dog with 'food' for good behaviour! Go figure that one, yet one asking the questions, either Rushton or Kell, never pursued that statement, nor did McLeod, whoever it was and the good Commissioner either did not pick up on it or chose to ignore it.
Arnott also mentioned that one of the foster dogs 'trashed' a sofa I think it was, and blamed it on poor socialisation rather than possible separation anxiety.
Christ I wish I could have been there.
Sadly, out of all this 'stitch up', life is going to get harder and no matter what we do or say, its just going to get harder. Euthenasia will be out of the question.
As for the Verhagen transcript, I feel sorry for him. The focus on him was as a dog trainer and that's probably fair. But he was also a farmer with sheep and cattle on his property.
Like many farmers, he doesn't run to the Vet every time one of his animals shows some signs of illness. Vets cost big bucks. He relies on the knowledge gained over his many years of experience and that generally does the trick. But Rushton ignored all that and poor old Alex was crucified.
John Robinson Australia (Verified User) Posts 160 Dogs 5 / Races 0 20 Nov 2015 09:51
(0)
(0)
If you are on the land you have to make some decisions you don't like doing like if you have a lamb hanging out of your ewes back end do you ring a vet no you pull it and dispose of it and if the ewe has problems you give her three days of penacilon and if that dont fix it cut her throat or shoot her if you have your gun with you. To ring the vet and get him out there and do the same job would cost hundreds and the sheep is only worth $50 total. The same with cows if you find a calf in trouble you tye up the cow go in get it in the right position and pull it and give the mother penacilon this happens repeatedly.
The poor Mr Verhagen this enquirie is being run by people who have never had the experiense that mr Verhagen has had he is a realist and knows how to live without being a leach on the rest of the comunity.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 20 Nov 2015 11:02
(0)
(0)
Released late today by GRNSW:
GRNSW Statement Written by: GRNSW
20/11/15
GRNSW
Greyhound Racing NSW (GRNSW) would like to respond to various statements made by the ABC regarding evidence tendered to the Special Commission of Inquiry into the Greyhound Racing Industry in NSW (the Commission).
In an interview with Richard Glover, reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna stated that GRNSW management ordered GRNSW stewards to falsify the number of greyhounds who died and also posted the following on her Twitter account:
(R)acing stewards ordered by Greyhound Racing NSW management to falsify number of dog deaths!
These claims by Ms Meldrum-Hanna are entirely baseless and no evidence was led at the Commission to support these claims.
At no point during this weeks hearings, was evidence put forward that alleged GRNSW management both current and former ordered GRNSW stewards to falsify the number of greyhound deaths. GRNSW recognises there is significant public interest in the issues being examined at the Commission and believes objective and factual reporting would better assist the community to understand the issues and the significant reform efforts underway.
Evidence was tendered at the Commission this week regarding the policy introduced by former GRNSW management to publish all injury occurrences of greyhounds at all race meetings but not to publish incidents of greyhounds that were euthanised as a result of on-track injuries in stewards reports.
As a result of evidence led at this weeks hearings, GRNSW is reviewing its steward reporting policies and will provide an update on this important work in the coming week. The review will consider where deficiencies have been identified in injury reporting practices, including the need for accurate and complete reporting and will have regard to practices adopted by other racing jurisdictions and whether or not an additional veterinary report should be available from each race meeting in NSW.
In making this statement, GRNSW acknowledges the need for transparency in the greyhound racing industry and ongoing engagement with its diverse stakeholders to inform policy development and strategic direction for the sport while promoting high levels of accountability including around injury and euthanasia rates due to on-track injuries. This issue forms part of our objective to make welfare at the centre of everything the organisation and the greyhound racing industry does.
GRNSW also takes this opportunity to stress the organisation has worked cooperatively with the Special Commission of Inquiry and is well advanced in rolling out a strong and proactive reform program in the organisation.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Nov 2015 17:10
(0)
(0)
Well maybe it's about time these vets the rspca and rehoming programs are made to be more transparent the public does not know nor does the Industry participants know how many greyhounds are handed up for adoption thru these agencies maybe it is about time they showed their figures we the participants are paying for this Welfare Bill so I feel the sooner the whole adoption area is made more transparent the fairer it will be for everyone.When people who call themselves experts can stand up before a commissioner with no bookwork and give evidence by assumption well it makes the whole system of running a multimillion dollar Industry a mockery
Simon Moore Australia (Verified User) Posts 2366 Dogs 32 / Races 393 21 Nov 2015 00:34
(0)
(0)
where exactly do they publish these responses?
only on thedogs website?
or elsewhere?
John Corrigan Australia (Verified User) Posts 98 Dogs 3 / Races 0 21 Nov 2015 19:55
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 22 Nov 2015 06:09
(0)
(0)
I have just been reading the transcripts and for the life of me who do these experts who can go before a commissioner and speak about an Industry when they have not been to a greyhound track in 3 years or more who have never been to a rearing establishment in 3 years that has never had much to do with the greyhound when she worked in a practice who expects us to teach our greyhound to sit stay and do all these little tricks for a treat..what mentality of people and only women by the looks do we have in these high places that know SFA all about anything.She even mentions the whip being used in racing yes she doesn't want that either that is the next agenda maybe she feels she is missing out on something watching those little jockeys using the whip on some of those Mares big backsides
Chris van Vegchel Australia (Verified User) Posts 443 Dogs 3 / Races 0 22 Nov 2015 08:43
(0)
(0)
I thought misleading the Commission is an offence. Some of the rhetoric this week has been total rubbish. Opinion not facts.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 00:41
(0)
(0)
From Hansard, there are so many leading questions...... some errors, unqualified guesses, opinions, generalisations.... . However, the points are understood...
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 01:14
(0)
(0)
Mark Donohue wrote:
From Hansard, there are so many leading questions...... some errors, unqualified guesses, opinions, generalisations.... . However, the points are understood...
Q. Now, I'm going to ask you about a series of topics. The first topic I want to ask you about is socialisation of young greyhounds. The Commission has heard evidence, including this week, regarding the importance of the 35 socialisation of greyhounds, particularly at an early critical stage of its development. Does the RSPCA have an opinion, or do you have an opinion, as to the importance of the socialisation of greyhounds? A. Yes. Our view is that socialisation is a critical aspect of care of greyhounds. We know that greyhounds are like any other type of dog, and we 40 know that the research is showing us that it's very important to provide adequate socialisation during that critical sensitive period which occurs between three weeks and 17 weeks of age, and the experiences they can have during that critical period can influence their behaviour in later life. Mark I go along with this 100% correct not a problem and it is a crucial age for any living thing.During the period of 0 to 3 weeks it's the reassuring period where the Dam accepts the human help she gets for the nursing of her pups it's a time when the dam becomes content with the human she is involved with because she knows that all is well in the surroundings about her.It's a period where the pups tentative to the human helper as they grow and all they have to go by is Mother Nature for security this is the period where the pup will move about the whelping box where they will resent the hands on when being handled by the human that is about to weigh it it's a time when they start to take comfort in the human helper as the go about putting its siblings on the nipples or worming them the 1st 21 days is as important as the next 21
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 01:35
(0)
(0)
Yes, John. If the average litter is seven, then socialisation occurs automatically for a few months at least. I never saw arguments amongst the pups until about three months. Competing for milk yes, but none that were 'picked' on until later. . I had one reared from five months to seven months with another litter as I had purchased him from an auction. It was a new complex for my boy. The complex owner was smart I thought by putting my pup with a litter of seven that were about a month younger than him. They picked on him and I saw it happen so I took him home n he grew up with one or two older dogs. There were no more fights. I suppose one has to know their dogs, but I held no ill feelings towards the complex owner. Why would I ? I believe in socialisation.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 01:43
(0)
(0)
Q. What are some of the experiences that go towards the socialisation of a greyhound in that critical period? A. So it means that they need to be exposed to a whole raft of novel stimuli, so things like other types of dogs, other types of animals, different types of humans, children, objects like cars, umbrellas, vacuum cleaners, 5 and so forth, objects that are potentially fear provoking and objects and stimuli that they're likely to encounter in later life, and basically if they're exposed in a positive way during that sensitive period, it means they're going to be less fearful of those stimuli when they are exposed to them later on.
Where the 1st 3 weeks was a comfort learning period where the pup is growing from coming from crawling and licking and moving over the human helper they start to move into a crucial period of exploring yes exploring the very surroundings of the objects and usually with their little eyes just opened they satart to focus on their mother and if their human helper is there they will share that focus with them by trying to chew their clothes their skin their fingers toes and anything else thay can focus on and if that human helper is a female with plenty of hair it's all the better because they like to focus on the hair region of the human if the get close enough.It is also the period where the human help starts to hang items soft items down from the ceiling stuffed toys bottles with stones in them they also get noisy toys that make different sounds their favourite sound around this time is the sound of paper tearing and this is a crucial time also to give them a taste of meat irrespective whether it is raw or cooked puppies at this age prefer raw and rule of thumb is you let them taste their mothers dinner when she is being fed many tastes are explored by the pup at this age Sausage mince eggs as in scrambled diced raw chicken diced lamb and beef and sometimes if they are lucky they will get road kill 1/2 dressed gutted and offal in whenever they are getting these meaty meals mum is usually locked out because she will gobble it all up on them.Is the human element interfering at this point of course not their mum is not in the position to go out and hunt for their natural foods so the human help does it for them as time goes forward in their short lives they start to rely on this human this helper that plays with them who lets them bite them and also who reassures them that life is good it is a period where the human helper is starting to be more popular because they start to take them into their pack even though at times they don't like them when the worming paste or tablet is being used and their toenails are being clipped and it's a time when they star to venture away from the kennel into a yard where there are more toys more fluffy bits and pieces yes by 8 to 10 weeks old they have started to get their little idiosyncrasies and they star to get into a pecking order and at 3 months old they are fully socialised with their surroundings and their pack including the human helper/s ....and whatever those human helpers expect of them they will usually go along with it because they too are part of their socialised pack but what they don't realise from here after the human helper will become more authority orientated when the pecking order begins to get out of hand
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 01:57
(0)
(0)
Whenever I breed a litter of pups it's me that has to be accepted into the pack it's me who has to do the things that mum would do if they were left to the wild but by the time the pup is 5 mths old they are fully socialised I worry not about them meeting people that visit because they will accept them because they are human like their helper.I worry not about them seeing other dogs because they have others like themselves plus Aussie the Heeler Pup I worry not about them seeing vehicles because whenever I come thru or go out the gate they acknowledge me especially coming back in to them.I worry not about other animals because the wildlife is part of their habitat but I do worry about there future if they are sold or given to a stranger and even though they are going to another human they know nothing about abuse ..and that is a worry
Tor Janes Australia (Verified User) Posts 10024 Dogs 16 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 05:22
(0)
(0)
This was interesting reading from the transcripts
Q. And Dr Arnott, can you tell the Commissioner what your plans are in respect of - if there are any - in respect of the licensing of rearers and educators, including as to any time frames in relation to that? A. Yes. Currently the timeframes for the complete licensing system are set for the 1 July to align the national licensing framework. However, prior to that we will be able to register rearers and educators. The capacity to do that within the IT system will be of next month so it will align with that
So rearers and breakers will have to pay licencing fee?
Jack Gatty Australia (Verified User) Posts 2055 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 08:18
(0)
(0)
It's going to be very confusing - is someone who buys 1 or 2 pups at 3mnths old and rears them themselves going to be licensed? Then if you were to educate those 1 or 2 pups yourself are you going to need another licence or is it commercial rearers and breakers the only ones who will need to be licensed? Looks like more money raising from participants when if we would get a fair share in line with what we produce there would be no need to keep slugging the poor participant. Imo
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 23 Nov 2015 11:53
(0)
(0)
Maybe these so-called animal libbers should do something that REALLY needs attention...
See Catholics killing dogs for Xmas in Vietnam...
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 18:50
(0)
(0)
Yes I see licence fees for rearing establishments and once that becomes part of the umbrella there will be more conditions brought in conditions like Bullrings and tracks registered in some way.I am starting to think that not too far off trainers will have to get a clearance from a vet when it due to come back to racing from a stand down injury and still ...the saga of dogs going to stud nothing is being said yet they are saying Frozen Semen is also part of the wastage problem because of the high strike rate of bitches not missing/conceiving.Jack I don't think they will go for the throat of the people like you and me rearing our own
Jack Gatty Australia (Verified User) Posts 2055 Dogs 1 / Races 0 23 Nov 2015 23:11
(0)
(0)
John as long as common sense is used then fine. What I find most amuzing is the catch cry that participants need to change when the truth is participants have been calling for change for yrs and it has fallen on the deaf ears of our regulators. How long have participants been harping on about welfare issues like bend starts, lure and track design, follow on lures etc. All to no avail and then now it's participants who need to change. The irony is laughable.
Sandra Giles Australia (Verified User) Posts 225 Dogs 0 / Races 1 24 Nov 2015 00:02
(0)
(0)
John McAlister wrote:
I have just been reading the transcripts and for the life of me who do these experts who can go before a commissioner and speak about an Industry when they have not been to a greyhound track in 3 years or more who have never been to a rearing establishment in 3 years that has never had much to do with the greyhound when she worked in a practice who expects us to teach our greyhound to sit stay and do all these little tricks for a treat..what mentality of people and only women by the looks do we have in these high places that know SFA all about anything.She even mentions the whip being used in racing yes she doesn't want that either that is the next agenda maybe she feels she is missing out on something watching those little jockeys using the whip on some of those Mares big backsides
Not all women John:- Was reading some of this myself and I also cannot believe some of the utter garbage that is coming out of these "so called" experts mouths. If these "commissioners" are SERIOUS and really want to know about these things, why for start don't they go and visit a selection of breeders,trainers and rearer's for themselves and get a "hands on" of what it entails being involved in this Industry, ask for opinions from some of the leading "Greyhound" Veterinarians that have years of expertise in the field, No instead they rely on hearsay from barely qualified vets who have limited knowledge of greyhounds or the sport of greyhound racing, by their own admission.
Many Moons ago having worked as a vet nurse for 15 years I can say I have had first hand knowledge of small/large animal practice, most of the 'greyhound' vets are genuine in their compassion for and knowledge/experience of the breed, but your run of the mill small or large animal practitioner acknowledge they have very little experience with the greyhound, and most don't want to/can't treat them full stop. One Vet I worked for did a ONE DAY seminar on Chiropractic work and then considered he was qualified to treat horses and dogs. And this know it all Vet want's to do away with the "Muscle Men" eh!!
A little story! Some of our "muscle men" are worth their weight in gold, only last night a muscle man friend told me a story about a little old pensioner lady who had a little dog [non greyhound] that had a back problem and could barely walk, she took the dog to the vet who told her it would need surgery to fix it, and who wait for it...quoted her between $3000 and $6000, distraught she was advised to see this muscle man by her friend, who manipulated the dog and $20 later the dog walked away fine, she actually came back to the muscle man with tears rolling down her face and gave him a kiss on the cheek she was so grateful and couldn't believe that he only charged her $20
This whole enquiry is just beyond a joke, utter nonsense.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 24 Nov 2015 01:13
(0)
(0)
Yes, exactly Jack n Sandra. . Divide n conquer so nothing has changed. . Something else is ironic; if we had the money and some of the executive had ears, then things may have been different. I would love to work with a dozen or so of you guys/gals on the administration side, but we'll never get a 'look in'. Love ya work.
Do you have questions how to use the Greyhound-Data website?
