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Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

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GAP ....Pay to play


Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

10 Nov 2018 21:09


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Would you pay 1k or more to place your dog into GAP or any other Greyhound adoption group ...

Would breeders breed more if they new that they could place there dogs after racing ...for a fee .

Is there a need for a rehabilitation centre for ex race dogs ....

Should all greyhounds go into Rehabilitation Farm before GAP ...

If our best breeders in Australia were encouraged to breed with the guarantee of after racing placements in GAP would that be money well spent for the future of the Industry




Hayden Gilders
Australia
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Posts 993
Dogs 29 / Races 0

10 Nov 2018 23:30


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GAP was forced on the industry by external parties "social licence". the Gap rules keep changing ie 1st greyhound was introduced to one pup now it has to take on 2 pups but before that t
greyhound has to be discouraged from chasing. and when it is no longer fashionable to have a gap dog what happens?

should be mandatory professional development for vets to hone their skills


Ross Farmer
Australia
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Posts 208
Dogs 0 / Races 1

11 Nov 2018 00:47


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1. Bit of history
GAP was not forced on the industry. It was initiated in 1999 by the late Jim Gannon who (with the support of Judge Gordon Lewis), presented a 4 stage proposal to the GRV Board to make greyhounds muzzle-free. GAP was stage 1, and was kicked off by GRV.

Other states followed, with slight differences. Some before live baiting, some after.

The path recommended under the proposal was not progressed. More recently, Victoria introduced Domestic Animals Act changes that allowed for no muzzles (with some restrictions), effective 1 Jan 2019.

2. The gap in GAP
GAP does not rehabilitate failed dogs.

Under the new code, those dogs are supposed to be an owner responsibility, but in most cases everything falls to the trainer.

But remediation by trainers is not a practical solution. The new (Victorian) welfare code imposes an unworkable situation for trainers. Most don't have the required time, or all the behavioural training skills that may be required, and then there is the issue of getting the owner to pay for time and boarding until retesting.

As a result, the post-racing transition of a greyhound's lifecycle is not properly covered, particularly the lack of formal rehabilitation options offered by the industry.

A Solution?
1. GAP filters out the dogs that can be easily transitioned.
Exists

2. Other adoption agencies take on and rehome GAP failures to the extent their resources allow.
Exists

3. Introduce an industry initiative for greyhound post-racing transition, funded as an industry welfare program. Could even be part funded by owner/registration fees.

Ideally, such a program should incorporate assessment and remediation training by accredited behavioural trainers, and development of best practices.


Hayden Gilders
Australia
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Posts 993
Dogs 29 / Races 0

11 Nov 2018 01:16


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did jim gannon introduce compulsory gap? he may have been an extraordinary man but he was well and truely gone when gap became mandatory and euthanasia permitted only in limited circumstances such as the dog being a danger to other animals.
the dogs that are most adaptable to gap are the ones that are least adaptable to racing. clearly the issue is in the breeding.

my understanding is that the responsible person for after race welfare is the last registered owner not the trainer but im not sure weather the brittons grenfells bravos et al have their kennels loaded with clients gap prospects or failures


Ross Farmer
Australia
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Posts 208
Dogs 0 / Races 1

11 Nov 2018 02:16


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Jim Gannon was a GRV Board member when he made the 4 part proposal, though I understood GRV had already acted on the GAP (stage 1) part of the proposal.

The euthanasia change occurred after Jim's death.

Not sure about compulsory GAP, as it has never been mandatory. Responsibility to rehome has become owner focused relatively recently. The problem is that responsibility is not aligned with practicality.

Unless an owner adopts their dog, they do tend to push the dog back to the trainer for a solution. In most cases, a trainer will try to rehome, but the problem is dogs that have issues or just not attractive adoption candidates.

And believe it or not, there are some irresponsible owners out there, as well as some that just face difficult circumstances eg a litter of dogs that through no fault of the owner don't make the track and or are not saleable.

Perhaps if the industry managed its priorities and costs better, this problem could be addressed.

And you are right, the problem and cost does tend to be pushed down to the grassroots and smaller trainers, particularly those that do care about the future of dogs they have trained.

In my opinion, those at the bottom of the racing pyramid wear disproportionate shares of costs and income. Clearly lower prizemoney, yet a similar cost structure, or higher if they take on greater responsibility for retired dogs. But that is another topic.


Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Nov 2018 05:16


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Almost 2019 Ross, LB took place Feb/2015! Still only ONE GAP centre in NSW. We have been battered from Pillar to Post Ross, on all things "Animal Welfare". Breeding, Racing, Transport, Kennelling, Animal Husbandry, Life Time Cycle, No Euthanasia etc

GRNSW control GAP! The slowest, weakest progression of them all.

Ross : if your idea of dogs eventually being placed with Animal Behaviourists comes to fruition, this will become a MILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY we cant afford.

To answer Kevin's 1st post, would you pay 1k to GAP to take and rehome? No! happy to pay desexing, and up to a month's care. $400?
max. (Prizemoney here not as good as Vic)



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

11 Nov 2018 06:20


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Terry Jordan wrote:

Almost 2019 Ross, LB took place Feb/2015! Still only ONE GAP centre in NSW. We have been battered from Pillar to Post Ross, on all things "Animal Welfare". Breeding, Racing, Transport, Kennelling, Animal Husbandry, Life Time Cycle, No Euthanasia etc

GRNSW control GAP! The slowest, weakest progression of them all.

Ross : if your idea of dogs eventually being placed with Animal Behaviourists comes to fruition, this will become a MILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY we cant afford.

To answer Kevin's 1st post, would you pay 1k to GAP to take and rehome? No! happy to pay desexing, and up to a month's care. $400?
max. (Prizemoney here not as good as Vic)


Terry
I would have no problems paying a % of what the Dog earned on the race track Money should be allocated for Adoption or GAP and once the dog finishes racing the main problem is placing these dogs into forever homes i believe this is what is stopping so many from breeding ...IMO

Any idea is a good idea if it is for the betterment of our industry ...

Ross touched on some Ideas...

We need new ideas to help get more dogs chasing and racing harder for longer


Ross Farmer
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 208
Dogs 0 / Races 1

11 Nov 2018 07:06


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Terry

There are smarter ways of handling rehoming and rehabilitation using contemporary behavioural training. It need not be as costly as you suggest.

Changed priorities and cost control by regulators should be a big part of a solution.

And perhaps it may be better to be part of the solution by putting money where my mouth is on this.




Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Nov 2018 07:37


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Ross Farmer wrote:

Terry

There are smarter ways of handling rehoming and rehabilitation using contemporary behavioural training. It need not be as costly as you suggest.

Changed priorities and cost control by regulators should be a big part of a solution.

And perhaps it may be better to be part of the solution by putting money where my mouth is on this.


Ross: We are being urged to participate in Forum's being organised across NSW with Animal Behaviourists from Sth. Aust already!
We (Aust) don't have the population for GAP to be successful.

This idea of whole of life tracking, is great in any utopian world.
However it has had a dire effect on potential owners, and new comers to our sport.

BTW What happened to the 100's of 1000's they took of us participants when they CHOSE to cut our travel subsidy, to cover GAP costs in NSW?

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