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Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

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Which Tornado will blow in?page  1 2 


Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5958
Dogs 8 / Races 0

08 Oct 2019 06:35


 (1)
 (0)


that's the other effect of damage these dogs do to others in the field, that consideration seems to have disappeared



Howard Moshinsky
USA
(Verified User)
Posts 886
Dogs 3 / Races 0

08 Oct 2019 15:02


 (2)
 (0)


move on



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

08 Oct 2019 23:14


 (6)
 (0)


Howard,

Perhaps you're right, although I wonder at your interest (if your address is correct), given that USA is stuffed and Oz is well on the way to the same end.

In both cases (and in the UK) the industry has acted as though it is all-knowing and all-powerful and so society no longer matters. The nasty stuff has now hit the fan and racing is being overrun by its opponents and no-one has any real idea what to do about it.

The pity of it all is that a great breed is suffering in both quality and quantity terms with an obvious flow-on to the people involved.

Responses here have been to either put more rules in place or throw some money at it. Excellence has been relegated to the rear while crappy products are now the name of the game - although in USA and UK it's even worse as shutdowns are now becoming common.

The missing element is that we forgot to bring the people along with the industry. From 1927 to the turn of the century that did not matter as folks flocked to the racetrack in their thousands. Now it does. What was "secret mens' business" is out in the open and easily addressed by people with different social and political objectives. And, recently, they have been winning.

The need for more "excellence" is why I introduced this thread. Tornado Tears happened to be the vehicle. Yet all it attracted is a tonne of abuse (with the odd exception) despite it being almost all factual.

We have had bureaucratic reform. What we now need is commercial reform, with the attached responsibility and accountability. I cannot see that happening when the folk in charge are now mostly ex-bureaucrats or ex-policemen, government-controlled, roughly 50% female and/or inexperienced in business, in racing or in greyhound care.

"Move on" is right, but where to? The entire system desperately needs a dose of dynamite.

(PS: I have no trouble with females in charge, but not females with the wrong background - the idiotic Greens would be one example).





Ryan Vanderwert
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5958
Dogs 8 / Races 0

08 Oct 2019 23:37


 (1)
 (0)


howard moshinsky wrote:

move on

to what Howard ? more examples of what Charles has shown ? no thx!
most of us already had moved on btw to another betting medium, whilst you were asleep.





Howard Moshinsky
USA
(Verified User)
Posts 886
Dogs 3 / Races 0

09 Oct 2019 00:31


 (0)
 (0)


did tt get hit on break seems he was a hurting dog lots of bad racing luck bad all around its called greyhound racing

CLICK HERE


Brett Gatt
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 132
Dogs 2 / Races 1

09 Oct 2019 03:01


 (0)
 (0)


Great video Howard
howard moshinsky wrote:

did tt get hit on break seems he was a hurting dog lots of bad racing luck bad all around its called greyhound racing

CLICK HERE





Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

09 Oct 2019 03:23


 (2)
 (0)


howard moshinsky wrote:

did tt get hit on break seems he was a hurting dog lots of bad racing luck bad all around its called greyhound racing

CLICK HERE

Howard,

We have all seen the movie several times.

TT jumped well.
It showed no pace.
There was a minor brush coming out of the first turn.
It stopped chasing hard as they went past the judge the first time.
It started to run into other dogs approaching the last turn.
It finished 5th after being backed in to $1.30.
A week earlier it blitzed the field in near record time.
Stewards said nothing, asked nothing, therefore assume no injury.
Trainer has said nothing then or since.

The only obvious explanation is that TT was stuffed after the previous fast run - 7 days prior - yet it had not displayed that problem in its earlier career.

Whatever - its running times have been erratic ever since its pad injury in April. I agree that it is just a dog and not a robot. Nevertheless, this is or was far and away the country's best stayer. It's the standard by which all others are measured.
Whether it still is is up for grabs (it's now three and a half years old) and its brother has had hassles, too. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

(Had it been a horse, these sort of discussions would have been plentiful and normal).


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

11 Oct 2019 22:31


 (7)
 (0)


Finally!

TT's peculiar performance in a Sydney Cup heat last night has finally attracted attention.

After finishing 4th (5 lengths to 42.16), stewards noted: no injury - disappointment - lack of tenacity - unsatisfactory performance - and enforced a trial prior to re-nomination.

TT jumped well and finished well. In-between was awful. In other words, very similar to its previous losing run at Meadows where it attracted no comment.

After being originally quoted at $1.40 the dog started at $1.70 (F/O) and $1.60 on the NSW tote, $1.80 in Victoria. (The official GBOTA/GRNSW results show $1.75 but their SPs are always from fairyland). Win prices from the corporates are unknown, as is normal.

All told, my guesstimate is that some $84,000 was invested on the race, of which 60% or more would have included TT.

Naturally, TT will not qualify for the final. Still, had Victorian stewards acted like their NSW brothers it would not have started in the heat either.

My sympathies to trainer Britton & co as TT's problems seem to be above the neck. And it is unlikely that trials will tell us much.

By the way - digressing - very large amounts were invested on First Fours all night - around $20k per race in NSW and half that in Victoria. Plus whatever the corporates picked up. This indicates professional people were involved. I doubt they were backing TT as its price eased significantly from its original quote.

Otherwise, a pretty exciting night with many good runs. They included an amazing performance over in Adelaide in the Cup final.




Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

13 Oct 2019 07:18


 (0)
 (0)


Race 2

EXTERNAL LINK
To be clear, this is not about dog or trainer but the quality of stewarding that is being adopted, especially if in Victoria. GRV have been soft as with applying the rules when it suits and I guess with the adoption of the overbreeding myth by the CEO, which was rubbish, rubbing dogs out when there is a lack of racing stock could explain this.




Brett Gatt
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 132
Dogs 2 / Races 1

13 Oct 2019 21:24


 (0)
 (0)


They obviously don't watch the head on footage, unless they only focussing on specific dogs. I'm sure Specsavers got some good deals going ATM.
charles w mizzi wrote:

Race 2

EXTERNAL LINK
To be clear, this is not about dog or trainer but the quality of stewarding that is being adopted, especially if in Victoria. GRV have been soft as with applying the rules when it suits and I guess with the adoption of the overbreeding myth by the CEO, which was rubbish, rubbing dogs out when there is a lack of racing stock could explain this.






Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7681
Dogs 180 / Races 66

14 Oct 2019 08:48


 (1)
 (0)


To be honest, we've all seen TT turn it up from time to time, but to get a ticket on that run (compared to his other ????)......I'd be P1$$-0FF if I was the trainer (or owner).



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

14 Oct 2019 21:12


 (3)
 (0)


steven martin wrote:

To be honest, we've all seen TT turn it up from time to time, but to get a ticket on that run (compared to his other ????)......I'd be P1$$-0FF if I was the trainer (or owner).

Steven,

True - it's also a moot point as to whether the dog was in the FTC category or just clumsy. It's not so much that he got knocked by other runners at Wenty but that he ran into them two or three times. He also eased after a good start. Probably the best characterisation by the stewards was that he lacked "tenacity".

But there are a couple of problems. He has done it before more than once and he was in a feature race at very short odds. The stewards' job is to protect the public, not pander to trainers. The public has a right to see the dog put in a "reasonable" effort but they did not get that.

You might compare the run with habits of dogs like Sweet It Is or Electra, both of which sometimes jumped well but then quickly retreated to the rear before eventually putting their foot down and thundering home. Yet, in the second half of their races those two did not muck around and had no hesitation in trying to force their way through the field - sometimes successfully, sometimes not. TT lacked that extra push this time. He wanted the heads to miraculously open up. Maybe he was gun shy for some reason or maybe he is just not a great field dog.

(Note - Electra eventually got a ticket in Vic but moved to WA and did well against lesser opposition).

Another example would be the hugely talented Chatacqua where stewards and everyone else gave him umpteen chances to leave the barriers properly. He would not do it. Since you never knew which Chatacqua would come out, they had no choice but to scrub him,

In the end, there are standards to be met. Given that we know what TT can do at his best he failed to meet those standards at Wenty and Meadows in successive races. Accurately, he lacked the tenacity.
Very sad but true. As I said in the heading to this thread - we had no idea which TT would turn up.



posts 32page  1 2