There, problem solved, lol.

G'day Daryl, keeping my head above water just taking overs atm.

I did back a mates dog the other day as I thought a few things were in his favour but it was fought and ran 2nd, wldn't have won anyway, nonetheless it is worrying as whenever I see a dog race these days much of the time I keep spotting nonnies.must be incredibly difficult for trainers to keep dogs chasing. Keep well.

Ta Ryan, but that is the way of an obsessive narcissist.
As you know, it's a constant theme of his.
Valid points against his own opinions need to be
treated like Kryptonite.

Anyway Torn, you've made me laugh with this gem of a passage...

"As background, readers might consider outside advice. Here are a couple.

From Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

You really are a funny guy, Torn.
That was even funnier than Daryl leaving off the three zeros from his half a dozen.
Funnier still that my mate from over the ditch describing you as an innocent victim of bullying.
Well, seeing that you are a man of principles and always heed sound advice, you can stop posting now because nothing will change with the responses your posts get.
Glad we sorted that one out.
You can also stop going behind the industry's back and putting forth opinions and instructions for industry change on behalf of participants, which you have no right to do.
After the 150 years of you doing this, nothing is going to change...they'll still throw them in the bin, as they have always done, thank God.

Or are you comfortable in the groove of insanity?

Old Alby would have changed his definition had he read your unrepenting diatribe, I'm sure...

BTW, a handicap champion of the Nadi Airport Bowls club, hey.
Bloody big rap that one!
Long time since I've been to good old Nadi, the lawn bowls capital of the world.
Now that I know a little more of your cultural background I can see the influence the sword sellers had on you.

You crazy guy.

You queried/supported a couple of points ...

"Victorians were one of the first to knock their incentives on the head".

True - this was a knee-jerk reaction as part of the alleged but flawed "overbreeding" saga promoted by Milne and initially supported by Clayton. It was specifically aimed at REDUCING breeding.

"You might want to ask yourself why they were the first to reintro them."

Also true as GRV realised that breeding numbers were still terrible (about half the old rate) and they were hoping that a bit of help would reverse the situation. So far, there is no evidence that it has.

"You may also like to ask yourself what the figures would be had they NOT."

An unanswerable question but the long term evidence suggests there would be little or no effect one way or another. For example, Napthine donated lots of cash/grants to (a) help re-build tracks/grandstands and (b) improve not only breeding but also employment. Sadly, breeding numbers failed to rise and I am still waiting to hear evidence of extra staff being hired.

Not "overlooked" at all - just logically assessed so as to come up with a conclusion that there have been " no obvious changes to breeding numbers". Check the numbers yourself if you wish. Of course, the odd bloke will have been happy that some fees were waived but that has not served to improve the state or national figures to any measurable extent.

However, Vicbred races continue today, thereby distorting the market and diverting funds from ordinary prize money - again without having any great effect on breeding numbers. Such policies simply make the chiefs feel good.

GRV Vic-Bred Bonus races were the envy of the country

Since 4 Corners breeding dropped dropped off dramatically in every State as a result of the bad publicity and the depression following the initial banning of the sport in NSW. It has slowly risen since then.

It's pretty obvious the Covid-19 pandemic and its associated economic effects is going to make people decide whether to skip a breeding season with their bitch

I can't see numbers increasing over the next 12 months, in fact, they may drop again

i'm not very smart but i'm smart enough to know to NOT ENGAGE WITH HIM AT ALL, lol.

I will start now.

Well, it's almost impossible to engage with him now because he dizzies around them by referring them to a third person!
Its like trying to have a conversation with someone answering you while facing the other way!
Gee, he knows how to tear someone's heart in two...devastated!
Precious little child he is.
Can't be bothered anymore because even the last lot of rubbish had holes big enough to drive a bus through.
And yes, I'm talking to you, Torn, through my good smart mate Simon!

Lol.

OK. Done Simon.

All future correspondence to Rip Torn will be dealt with by one word..."IGNORED".

Sandro,

Napthine was Premier and Racing Minister in 2013 and 2014 calendar years. Victorian breeding hit a high in 2012/13, then faded in the next two years until dropping off the cliff after that (ie post-LB and post "overbreeding").

Any of his actions in office could not possibly have affected the high in 2013 due to the breeding lead times involved.

There has been no substantive recovery in breeding since LB - as I have indicated earlier. See my comparisons of before and after LB numbers.

I agree with your last two sentences, which is why I opened this thread in the first place - but got rubbished for it by some.

* * * * *

The VicBred subject, since copied in SA and considered in NSW, is a different kettle of fish although it is presumably intended to support local breeding. There is no evidence that it has achieved that in any meaningful way. (Worm Burner is popular in SA but the big guns from Wheeler are doing better). Anyway, it is poor business practice from a number of angles.

* It is not fresh money but just a diversion of funds from normal prize money. It may encourage some and discourage others.
* No objectives have been stated and no results ever produced.
* A discriminatory practice like that tends to reduce the overall incentive for racing - albeit plenty of interstaters and are still going south for whatever goodies they envisage despite being disadvantaged against the Vic dogs moneywise.
* At the moment, it is helping to keep field numbers down in Victoria.
* As with other subsidies, the scheme ends up being copied elsewhere, thereby defeating the initial purpose of the plan.
* It increases admin and IT costs.
* Potentially, such subsidies may encourage a breeder to select a less than ideal sire.
* A benefit accruing to a Vic dam and pups may well be a result of a mating to an interstate sire, meaning that some funds end up elsewhere (all dependent on the rules involved).
* Frequently, such sires will often be located in another state, thereby supporting economic activity in that state.

Any time you fiddle with the natural market you get unintended consequences.

We are now entering a world of make-believe where no-one can really know what sports will look like in a years time. Any sport. Hopes and stories abound. The states and Canberra are not always on the same page, particularly not Queensland which is critical to the greyhound scene.

As of today, horse racing has chopped all its prize money in light of reduced betting commissions. Major football codes are at risk and so is their future income. Players will have to wear smaller pay packets, if any. Clubs will not return with the same number of staff. Spectators and TV coverage are in the lap of the gods but revenue is almost certain to be much smaller. Cricket and tennis are in abeyance as they are out of season at the moment.

Happily, greyhound racing has managed to avoid some of the nasty effects so far. Dog numbers are dangerously small but that was happening anyway. NSW has cut back meetings aggressively but other states are charging on regardless of empty boxes and declining quality. Tasmania is in abeyance. But we are getting there, albeit hampered by limited access to betting.

A while back, Kevin Pitstock of Race Media attempted a summary of likely future profit and loss figures following the reversal of the NSW ban and the creation of GWIC. That package included a government grant spread over 5 years and also the requirement that GRNSW (the commercial arm) fund much of GWICs costs. All pre-coronavirus, of course.

That expense/income exercise came out millions of dollars in the red. If using, say, a 2019 scenario, GRNSW would not be able to pay its way without subsidy. The sums would be much worse today as coronavirus impacts hit home, customers lose their jobs and the grant money fades out.

Some 4,000-odd participants, mostly trainers, are now divided up into three rough groups: the well-off; those just getting by; and those who did not really have much hope of making a profit anyway. Only the first lot would have a chance of continuing in a tighter economic climate.

Owner/trainer incomes depend on two sources; capital transfers as they buy and sell stock, either pups or seasoned performers, and prize money taken out of betting commissions. The former depends on public confidence and a flourishing industry, the latter on betting commission, hopefully from re-opened clubs and pubs. Today, neither source can be relied on. Many people will still be jobless or on reduced wages. Maybe another 12 months will see some resurgence but it will be nowhere near the good old days.

In the longer term, with no more grants and reduced commission, prize money will be unsustainable and survival difficult without radical changes to the operating system. That means big cutbacks in staffing and greater efficiency in how and where races are produced. Possible differences could be

Reductions in subsidies to non-Tab tracks they are worthwhile assets for their PR value and area contributions to TAB betting, but not at any cost. The figures are not huge but they all add up.
Greater reliance on large kennels where expenses can be spread over a number of dogs.
Rationalisation of clubs wherever possible for example, to run with both Casino and the nearby Lismore is plainly ridiculous. Then take a look at Wagga and Temora, Bathurst and Lithgow, Coonabarabran and Dubbo, Gunnedah and Tamworth, Wauchope and Taree, and Potts Park on its own.
Double meetings on the one day (as suggested by one Mestrov correspondent).
Stronger marketing in local areas ie use it or lose it. Make clubs more responsible for their own survival.
Programming only high betting races necessarily, that would include better education of prospective fans (note that 28% of all races over the last week have been below 350m).
Fewer paid stewards (utilise more club stewards instead).
Reduced paperwork and simplified IT programs (needing less staff).
Any other innovations you can think up.

Already, Post Offices have privatised or disappeared, banking customers are using the internet, service stations are fewer and have diversified more, supermarkets are selling insurance and who buys a fridge or TV these days unless it is heavily discounted.

In a growing industry and a flourishing climate you can get away with luxuries even some desirables but not in an industry where activity is near certain to be a third or a half smaller than today.

A trainer might do well to get into breeding small dogs more suited to older couples, retirees, singles, sea change residents, all living in smaller houses and apartments (where permitted). Like many farmers, they might even host school excursions or kennel tours with devonshire teas a couple of days a week.