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NSW GRADING
Grant Dunphy Australia (Verified User) Posts 743 Dogs 4 / Races 1 16 Feb 2024 19:18
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I have checked the form & no. of wins dogs in the different 5th & 4/5th grade 400m races at the Gardens today 17th Feb. To my disbelief I found races where the majority of dogs had say 2 wins yet one dog had 9 wins etc. even though another 400m race had mostly 6 to 10 win dogs as well as 2 win dogs so the 9 win dog should in my opinion be in the later race. In each case the standout no of wins dog is favourite. I can't see any explanation for it but it would sure put my mind at rest if there is one.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 16 Feb 2024 22:11
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Grant , this is the grey area or multiple rules set up in grading , that basically gives the grader the right to place a dog in any field ?
Your race you have a chaser with 2 wins , basically a maiden winner , new young chaser learning his craft
Your againsts a city dog experienced with 50k in prize money ???
I dont care about results or if your dog manages to topple him today , the point is ..your dog at his stage of his career shouldnt be against this caliber of dog nor anyone elses !
2nd , this grading is forcing trainers to train against how you manage your dog ! You should be going up improving your dogs capacity to run its distance limit !
Not drop back from 500 mtr to 400 mtr bend start conditions to pick up its supposed easier 5th grade win over distances he has wins in the bank to take ??
There should be 1-3 wins everywhere at every meeting every week !! Ive always said , a win is a win ! Doesnt matter the distance , if it was like this you would never have the above occurrence!
Its really not that hard , but app if you ask they say , its the system mate , it costs too much to change the current system
So lets ruin the dogs which is the product ! You know the ones we are meant to be supplying the ultimate WELFARE for ! And how WE have to abide by this code on our properties, yet when it comes to showcasing our sport , or time for our chasers to perform , Its a free for all under the most rediculous and dangerous rules enforced by the same Poeple who set it up and chant YOU MUST PROVIDE WELFARE !
Go figure Grant its the most hypocritically set up organisation in the world !
Amateur at best Welfare ????
Grant Dunphy Australia (Verified User) Posts 743 Dogs 4 / Races 1 17 Feb 2024 01:28
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Agree Nathan under our present grading system they can do things that go right against our dogs welfare. But I would like to know why they do it & why they are not stopped from doing it by those in charge. What is their motivation?
Russ Forno Australia (Verified User) Posts 274 Dogs 0 / Races 0 17 Feb 2024 09:09
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Dogs that win 3 4 or 5 that can't be stretched out, if unfortunate enough, (even though only 5th grade, can be chucked in a 4/5 grade, run a long second or third and cop the weighted point score as a fourth grader. Nom the next start, you will cop the 4/5 grade again, although you may be the only 5th grader in the race. Rinse/ repeat, you can be stuck there. * Tell me i'm wrong.
Paul Ballantine Australia (Verified User) Posts 284 Dogs 10 / Races 8 18 Feb 2024 08:31
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Grant Dunphy wrote:
Agree Nathan under our present grading system they can do things that go right against our dogs welfare. But I would like to know why they do it & why they are not stopped from doing it by those in charge. What is their motivation?
I understand your frustration but I also dont understand how its a welfare issue?
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 18 Feb 2024 10:36
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Do u think it would be in your pups best interest to go up against a 50k city winner in a trial ?
Or maybe it could break it and lose interest !
Even better , do it 5 times in a row and let it get swiped and cut off or belted from the boxes against the superior ability and mentality advanced runner .
Is that not welfare at its worst towards young dogs learning their craft who are already behind the 8 ball chasing a fluffy toy ?
Pretty sure that comes under welfare ..? Atleast the guy who whelped and reared his litter for 2 years watching his litter get Destroyed would think Im guessing Paul
Ps the race in question the city dog won by 3 jumping midfield ? Dropping back in distance to a corner start , risky ! What if it took a hit and did somersaults at first corner broke a hock . Is that not the result of the system that encourages distance wins categories ?
Again great welfare towards our runners
Pss . It jumps it wins by 8 and the other 7 are chasing nothing !
System is broke on all counts
Paul Ballantine Australia (Verified User) Posts 284 Dogs 10 / Races 8 18 Feb 2024 20:16
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Do u think it would be in your pups best interest to go up against a 50k city winner in a trial ?
Or maybe it could break it and lose interest !
Even better , do it 5 times in a row and let it get swiped and cut off or belted from the boxes against the superior ability and mentality advanced runner .
Is that not welfare at its worst towards young dogs learning their craft who are already behind the 8 ball chasing a fluffy toy ?
Pretty sure that comes under welfare ..? Atleast the guy who whelped and reared his litter for 2 years watching his litter get Destroyed would think Im guessing Paul
Ps the race in question the city dog won by 3 jumping midfield ? Dropping back in distance to a corner start , risky ! What if it took a hit and did somersaults at first corner broke a hock . Is that not the result of the system that encourages distance wins categories ?
Again great welfare towards our runners
Pss . It jumps it wins by 8 and the other 7 are chasing nothing !
System is broke on all counts
I understand all the above but everyday maidens win by huge margins and so do some graded races . I think that part is out of our control. Even with all dogs equal in ability that does not decide the winning margin that is why I couldnt understand it being a welfare issue . Not knocking anyone just trying to understand the welfare part.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 18 Feb 2024 21:04
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Protecting young inexperienced dogs I think is good for their overall longevity in their race career
I really don't mind the Vic system of
Maiden --> Grade 7 ( 1 win) --> Grade 6 ( 2 wins) and they sometimes mix those grades depending on noms
At least your first 3 wins are against dogs of similar age and experience but not necessarily ability
I also like the Qld system of Maiden --> Novice before heading to Graded races
Anthony Lord Australia (Verified User) Posts 39 Dogs 1 / Races 0 18 Feb 2024 22:11
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nothing wrong with the grading system you can protect your dog by nominating for 0-1 1-2 1-3 1-4 0-2 0-3 there will never be a perfect grading system I think the one we have now is ok probably needs tweaking a bit which the graders have done recently and will continue to do so over time I think if trainers need to place there dog better for example if you have a dog thats won 2 from 20 and struggling Id look for a 0-2 or 1-2 were there short noms hoping to draw a six dogger and be in the money you can only work with what you have placing dogs in right races at least gives you some hope graders cant train them for you.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 18 Feb 2024 22:40
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Hi Andy
What you have said is true, but trainers need to go looking for those races
It just seems more systematized having the grades there specifically to cater for it i.e. you nom your dog for a meeting and those grades are already there for you
Surely it should make grading and nominating less time consuming
Another thing I wouldn't mind is reducing the Masters age down to 3.5years old and having expanded grades there which are time based so that the slower and faster masters dogs are graded with each other
If they run an exceptional time (which has to be determined for each track/distance) then they go back to graded races for a period of time, as they do in Qld
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 18 Feb 2024 22:51
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No they cant can they Andy ? no one expects them too ? But If they put more of these 0-2 wins 3-5 wins on every day at every track , no one would have an argument !
They arent around enough .
Your not acknowledging the fact a 2 win pup comes up against a city grade 9-12 wins with 50-70k winner under the distance bracket wins ???
Like I said you wouldnt trial your pup against this , so what makes you think its suddenly acceptable to perform it under race conditions ?
Maybe fill your kennels up with 23.30 dogs instead of the 22.50 you have to better understand the other 70% of trainers problem under the current app nothing wrong with the system ??
Not that I was expecting the top trainers to have any dramas !
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 18 Feb 2024 23:02
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When you've got a kennel full of other peoples fast dogs that you turnover when they don't make the grade. It's easy to say the grading system is OK. It's for the hobby trainer (who are the backbone of the industry) that have to struggle along with ordinary dogs week in week out, that the current grading system needs to tweak.
Mark Wilcox Australia (Verified User) Posts 264 Dogs 1 / Races 0 18 Feb 2024 23:45
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They must put in to play grade 6 & 7 that will get the youngsters off to a good start before they hit the hard racing .
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Feb 2024 00:20
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I would even be in favour of a juvenile grade (for dogs under 2yo) put in before Grade 7
Therefore, each dog could potentially win 4 races before it hits grade 5
Of course, Juvenile and Grades 7 & 6 would not be categorized by distance, only number of wins i.e. once you have won that grade, you can't go back there
Once your dog gets to Grade 5, then you can play around with the distance categories
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 19 Feb 2024 01:34
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Hallelujah, Sandro
Wow .. a system that puts the product first and rewards all connections who got the dog there at the same time !!!!
No grey areas too with loop holes amazing ?????
Sandro do us all a favour and get on a board , they seem to be handing out senseless wages everywhere else for no constructive return !
Youve been more constructive in one morning then they have in over 4 years
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 19 Feb 2024 02:35
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Unfortunately, its not rocket science Nathan
They just have to use commonsense and have a desire to improve the sport for the dogs and the participants
Greg Russell Australia (Verified User) Posts 107 Dogs 0 / Races 0 19 Feb 2024 04:35
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I refuse to race dogs in NSW as the grading is absolutely ridiculous and minor tinkering at the edges has done nothing to change the situation. As stated, the Victorian grading is much better and at least gives the young dogs and maidens a chance. Vic also could be improved and the new strategic white paper seems to suggest some more changes could be in the pipeline (more races for bitches only etc). NSW needs a multi-pronged approach to getting this right as renovating and building new tracks will not fix the access to races and fair and safe outcomes for young dogs and dogs of average ability that need safe racing.
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