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Missing Data
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Jun 2007 19:38
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As you know "the Dogs" site has most of April's results missing following the recent crash of their site. They also failed to input a few meetings which are therefore missing from GD. Can you tell us what is happening are you backfeeding the missing data to "the Dogs" and will they, in due course, feed GD the missing meetings.
In publicising the fact that GD now show the going adjusted times on the individual greyhound formlines I have received a few enquiries about the missing meetings on GD and so some information and explanation would be appreciated.
Incidentally, if it is not already underway I would suggest that you place a bold message on your Home page of this change because it will be seen as a bis plus by British racegoers.
Posts Dogs / Races 07 Jun 2007 06:03
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Hi Bill,
To answer your questions:
> Can you tell us what is happening are you backfeeding > the missing data to "the Dogs"
I certainly believe that the Dogsuk have got a backup of their database. Noone would operate without a backup. We can of course backfeed them with results - we have offered them our support. But loading their own backup will be easier and faster for them.
> the missing meetings on GD
We are working on adding them at the moment.
> Incidentally, if it is not already underway I would suggest that > you place a bold message on your Home page of this change because > it will be seen as a bis plus by British racegoers.
We are working on a few more form related features:
- The upcoming race card will include the form. - We will provide goings for the Irish races and the form will take these Irish goings into account too. - We will provide some form based statistics
When some more of these features are finished we will announce them.
Cheers Gunnar
Martin Mcbride Ireland (Verified User) Posts 972 Dogs 13 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 07:19
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this results still not in your database EXTERNAL LINK
Posts Dogs / Races 07 Jun 2007 07:39
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> this results still not in your database
Many thanks for pointing this out.
The reason for this is easy to explain. Please understand that we have to enter all Irish races manually.
Two years ago the IGB promised us to support GD with race results. But since two years we waiting for the IGB to finish setting up their computer for this.
Please understand that the amount of work that entering the races is a lot of work and sometimes if the results are not available it takes us extra time to realize that the races were updated. So if we miss a race please be so kind to email us.
Cheers Gunnar
Holger von Boehn Germany (Verified User) Posts 1851 Dogs 586358 / Races 1337329 07 Jun 2007 08:31
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Martin -the missing races are online;-)
We are missing some UK results from 30th May, especially from Yarmouth.
It would be great when some users would help.
Cheer, Holger
Martin Mcbride Ireland (Verified User) Posts 972 Dogs 13 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 09:00
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Cheers lads i did tell yo'se 4 times about the missing race, I was beginning to wonder if i dreamt i was at that meeting. A lot of people use this site as the bible more so than "the dogs" or IGB, perhaps somebody could have done their dough ante post on the second for wimbledon. But if he has seen that form he probably would have kept his loot in his satchel. Thanks again
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 11:04
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Gunnar - "the Dogs" appear to have reverted to an April back-up to which they have added the June results except for the few meetings they missed. I just wondered if they had been caught out and not backed-up the May results. It would be amazing if they haven't but their PR seems hopeless why on earth did they not issue a statement saying what has happened and what thhey are doing about it. If they have issued such a statement then I have missed it and I do keep checking.
When you start showing the Irish "going allowances' make sure that you exclude the IGB allowances which they show as "going allowances when they are nothing of the kind. Very few Irish tracks give going allowances and then it is usually when there is excetionally Slow going - they do not show allowances for Fast going.
I know you are the experts but your knowledge has to be worldwide and it is just the thought that you might not be completely familiar with the Irish scene. Sorry if I am saying the obvious.
Incidentally do you know what meeting are missing as I should be able to fill in much of it if you can provide a simple format for doing so.
Keep up the brilliant work.
Posts Dogs / Races 07 Jun 2007 12:40
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> When you start showing the Irish "going allowances' make sure that > you exclude the IGB allowances which they show as "going allowances > when they are nothing of the kind.
We are going to add a GD-going allowance for the Irish races. It will be much closer to your understanding of going allowance than the current one of the IGB is.
Cheers Gunnar
Martin Mcbride Ireland (Verified User) Posts 972 Dogs 13 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 12:49
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The Irish + AND - ratings doesn't have anything to with the going, thats what hes trying to explain, its based on the shape of tracks. Don't bother trying to estimate goins allowances it will be nearly as bad as your form ratings, which should be abolished as well. You have dogs doing 42.50 in the cross getting a worse form rating than dogs running off the front in handicaps in the uk.
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 12:51
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Gunnar - are you saying you are going to show estimated going allowances as we know them at the British tracks or are you going to show IGB type allowances that are more accurate and extended to all of the Irish tracks?
Posts Dogs / Races 07 Jun 2007 13:18
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Bill,
Yes, estimated going allowances just in the same way as we have them for the UK tracks.
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 14:03
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Gunnar - the going allowances for the British tracks are esimated at each track by the Racing Manager to reflect the going conditions on the night for each individual race. How is it possible for you to do this for Irish racing. Will you have someone at each track for every meeting estimating the going for the various distances of race? Seems a very tall order. I just have a feeling that there is some confusion over the differing British and Irish ptactice.
Martin Mcbride Ireland (Verified User) Posts 972 Dogs 13 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 14:11
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Bill thats wht i'm trying to tell him, he'd end up with people suing him for guessing at the going and devaluaing the dogs performance..
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 14:12
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Martin - GreyhoundData treats the times in handicaps as though they are from a level start. You find that the Fastest Times shown for tracks like Newcastle which run handicaps are often greyhounds running off a mark. Still one thing at a time and lets try to explain the difference between British going allowances and the IGB allowances as I fear GD will be adding to the confusion.
Martin Mcbride Ireland (Verified User) Posts 972 Dogs 13 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 14:28
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Sorry mate you're more qualified than me, so i will leave it to you. cheers
Michael Murphy Ireland (Verified User) Posts 4723 Dogs 1673 / Races 1 07 Jun 2007 17:31
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Surely this is one for the Good News Man, he has sorted so many difficult tasks, it's up his alley. He might even turn this one into a campaign.
Mugs.
Bill Webb United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 850 Dogs 0 / Races 0 07 Jun 2007 18:15
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Martin - I think what Gunnar is planning is simply to apply adjustments similar to those applied by the IGB but more accurate and extended to all Irish tracks. I have published a full list of Comparative Times in the new Trap2Line weekly and they are also on the Belle Vue Owners Forum. Eric Hughes also gives his views on his website. The confusion seem to arise because Gunnar refers to these as going allowances as though they are comparable with British going allownces whereas as we both know they have nothing to do with the going but are simply a means of comparing times recorded at different Irish tracks. The problem is that without knowing the state of the going how do you compare a, say 2870, at Limerick and Tralee if the run at Limerick was on very fast going and that at Tralee on very slow going. If you were at the tracks you can make a guestimate of the going and you can get a fair idea analysing the other results on the same night but in my opinion to do it for all meetings will not be feasible until the Irish introduce going allowances as at the British tracks. The British system has its critics but from long experience it is reasonably reliable.
IGB type allowances are not relevant at British tracks because graders are confined to a particular track and the need does not arise. It is also complicated by the fact that there is no standard trip, like the Irish 525y. As you know the standard trip at British tracks varies from 380m to 515m and when making time comparisons you have to bring the stamina factor into the equation. With that proviso I have published Comparative Times for British tracks in Trap2Line and on BVOF but they are for use on the Open race scene.
I have exchanged notes previously with Gunnar and Holgar about rarings and I think the issues are much more complicated than they appear to think despite their running the number one greyhound racing site.
Steve Wray United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 62 Dogs 6 / Races 1 17 Oct 2014 11:38
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Any plans to add the missing Irish form and videos? as although they are being added once again several months are completely missing.
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