But she is going super. Second 600m for two wins and looks like Pauls and our thoughts about her being a strong 600m bitch who can do it at both ends is dead right.

Well done Paul and bloody glad to be enjoying it with Jarrad.

Well done Paul and bloody glad to be enjoying it with Jarrad.

Sand Man isn't in x in KMM's ped and there in lies the danger in saying things like Banjo may not go well with KMM bitches because with 911 Sand Man is in x thru CJ Ima Bahama which is in 911's dams pedigree.

You may well be doing Banjo an injustice by calling it that way. Too honest for your own good Andrew. haha. cheers.

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I know genius breeder Kevin Burns told me he used to like crossing New Tears with Light of Fire so you may be re right Mick with a similar cross between AA/Collision working, however I wld then take it to the next step and try to work out why that's the case. If you can answer that question, that wld be extremely interesting reading.

Re LOF/Blue Girl Vane that was because Jarrad's line has thrown AA which was by LOF, and Blue Girl Vane recreates LOF at a very high percentage through different individuals other than LOF himself...........iow Blue Girl Vane is recreating a very similar intensity to what LOF did with the same damline.

Similarly if I had a bitch from your line Mick I wld be trying to recreate another Bombastic Shiraz because he produced Bit Chili, or another Where's Pedro because he produced Double Twist through different individuals to Bombastic & Pedro in the hope of that line giving up another Bit Chili or Double Twist type. I wldn't bother about anything else. That wld be my focus.

Now does Collision do this thru any of his dams to Pedro or Bombastic at a sufficiently high percentage (above 88%) ?

CLICK HERE approx 66% ; CLICK HERE approx 60%;
so not high enough %'s there for my liking and that now eliminates you from breeding a possible champion from a Bombastic/ Where's Pedro perspective. It may still produce a champion if you do this mating but it wld likely be to another dog that was previously successful with your girls damline. That's my theory anyway.

Lets look at the next dam up collisions sire line Tranquil Flame CLICK HERE not much there at all ; CLICK HERE again nothing much here esp when you consider Wav Supreme, Sabby's Image & Bowetzel are only cross duplicated in the top half of the pedigree, AND now that likely eliminates you from breeding a possible invitation class type from a Bombastic/ Where's Pedro perspective. The further up the sireline you go the lesser the intensity UNLESS you have a full blood relation attached directly to the sires sire line.......so you are looking at above 94% to 100% range(previously explained in the 'Trends in Breeding' topic).

Similarly you can put in the next two dams Centrefire and Starfire Lady going up Collisions sireline with Bombastic and Pedro and see how they match up. Keep in mind you are now likely looking at mixed 4/5 & Grade 5 competitors unless they are above 94%.........that's from a Bombastic and Pedro perspective only.

That's my thought process when I go through a pedigree. I just like the figures on my side. Then there's x path, xy, outcross positioning, sex balancing, reverse pedigrees etc. cheers.

I notice there is a high intensity 88% niche with Rumble Spirit (Collision's dam) and Token Prince EXTERNAL LINK who has also had success with this damline, so it may well be that reasoning bringing Collision to the fore.

Pedro & Bombastic in the past threw the highest quality with this damline, so logic to me is replicate them if possible to create breeding parallels to imo champions in Double Twist & Bit Chili. It may well be that Collision as you say is throwing enuf quality to replicate TP thru his dam Rumble Spirit. My issue is that a really quality dog in that TP litter fought and Rumble Spirit sharing such a close niche to TP is worrying. It may be that the 12% of that niche not included in that relationship may make the difference. I hope so and that may well be the case.

Anyway I prefer to look at recreating relationships to dogs with champion qualities, try and eliminate as much of that type of risk as possible. It may be there were dogs in the champions litters that were iffy types too, but at least breeding parallels to them have a chance of reproducing that champion type of ability again. Once again Collision may have arrived with this line throwing those champion types and your thinking may well be correct. I don't rate dogs in detail sectionally like I used to, so I'm not offering an opinion there until I absolutely have to, as there's much work involved.

Another thing I like to look for on the front page of a pedigree is extremely high intensity(preferably 100%) attached directly to the sires sireline but back into the pedigree. The best I can get with your mating is 94% intensity within 5 gens between Light of Fire and Sobbing Sal EXTERNAL LINK . Mister Twister carried them in the 3rd & 4th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , Feral Franky carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline and dams sireline EXTERNAL LINK , your mating carries them in the 3rd & 5th gen thru the sires sireline which is comparable to Franky but thru the grandams sireline this time - it may be slightly less intensity being thru the grandams sireline but at least it's still in the 5th gen so thats a plus. Remember when they are farther back in the ped we are aiming for 100% intensity. You can have some real influence with less than 100% intensity when they closer up as in Twisters case. Double Twist is a great example of 100% intensity at work further back in the ped on the front page with Miss Dusty Lee attached directly to the sires sireline in the 4th gen and full blood relation Osti's Magic in the 5th gen EXTERNAL LINK . btw 100% intensities thru the sires sireline much closer to the front of the pedigree and you may risk shorter course types and less than 100% intensity further back into the pedigree and you risk losing the impact. That's what I've found at this early stage anyway.

Repeat matings that's a whole new topic and always open to be convinced there. To me sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

No breeding theory that I know of works all the time, but that doesn't mean breeders shld guess either, so I like to pack a pedigree with as many logical theories as possible with genetic reasons and percentages to back them up.

Good luck if you go ahead with your mating I'm not totally against as it carries line breeding in x to cornerstone brood Elsie Moss and has appeal from a Feral Franky perspective as explained, just have some reservations at face value looking at this line from a TP perspective which Collision brings to the table thru his dam Rumble Spirit. Cheers.

Thanks for the reply, interesting reading and once again has given something to think about.
My feelings and from what I have seen when Collision has been used on the Tifi/ Chili Berger line is that he has brought nothing but hard chasing to the line,. I havent had any experience with Token Prince as a sire but I have heard he was known to throw some questionable types.
I would probably put Token Prince dog that fought to Token Princes temperment himsaelf, and also the Chili Berger line has improved its chase itself with the use of sires like Bombastic Shiraz, Wheres Pedro, Collision ect.
Thanks again I like when someone gives an honest opinion not just telling you what you want to hear.