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Litters --- Australia ---Droppingpage  << 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 >> 

Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

07 May 2017 23:11


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Darren N.S.W. Participants won't have an industry in 5 year's. The deal Scott & Gordon accepted is inadequate at best.


Nicholas Arena
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 233
Dogs 10 / Races 0

07 May 2017 23:12


 (0)
 (0)


Darren I don't think it is a matter of "whinging" many , including yourself, are pointing out the problems that are holding the Industry back and to0 most , why breeding is in decline.

Yes you are right the Industry will only prosper if sufficient Breeding is being undertaken to sustain the racing. But,using your 3 litters in 12 months as an example and an assumption NSW's life cycle ownership and Euthanasia rules are rolled out Nationally ,in conjunction to the ban on exports ,unless you can answer positively to the following questions participants need to be very concerned about the financial impact.
" Do I have sufficient financial resources to breed - rear - break in - pre train 20 pups? Can I place 20 dogs post racing or at a point they are deemed unacceptable for racing? Can I afford to look after up to 20 dogs for 8 plus years at my expense , either on my own property or with someone else? How much prize money will I need to earn to pay for these 20 dogs life cycle?Will I be breeding in years 2 and 3 - if so how many litters and at what cost? - That is rerun the above questions.

Bottom line Darren IMHO if you cannot get dogs through a system and place them efficiently at whatever point required eg - Fail to chase - break down - not of sufficient ability - Trainer calls you "I need this dogs out asap it is not up to my standards" etc the financial model for breeding and racing greyhounds is irrevocably broken. If all any one is doing is breeding in the hope they will exploit a shortage of greyhounds that may lead to higher prize money returns ,without considering the after racing cost/regulations, I would caution them to consider carefully the personal and financial costs associated.

As Anthony says unless you have Deep Pockets and your own facilities to re home your stock be very careful.




Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3160
Dogs 12 / Races 0

07 May 2017 23:35


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 (0)


Mark Staines wrote:

Darren N.S.W. Participants won't have an industry in 5 year's. The deal Scott & Gordon accepted is inadequate at best.

You might be right Mark so what do you do??

: sit on your hands and blame everyone else
: get out now as it's going to be a tough few years ahead
: Keep breeding and maybe things might change.

We all have choices I know which one I would make.



Mark Staines
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4499
Dogs 70 / Races 14

07 May 2017 23:44


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Darren you can't expect people to breed unless they have certainty and that is not the case here in N.S.W.


Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6021
Dogs 0 / Races 0

08 May 2017 00:13


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Darren Langley wrote:

Mark Staines wrote:

Darren N.S.W. Participants won't have an industry in 5 year's. The deal Scott & Gordon accepted is inadequate at best.

You might be right Mark so what do you do??

: sit on your hands and blame everyone else
: get out now as it's going to be a tough few years ahead
: Keep breeding and maybe things might change.

We all have choices I know which one I would make.


Darren: I live in NSW, the Lib/Nat govt has given us 5yrs, in 3yrs will review the Racing situation (They are ruining) to see if we are still viable. In the 2yrs-3months since Live Baiting, The McHugh Report, WDA, Uni Studies, The Expert Panel 120 odd recommendatons. So far Darren we have a race day water policy. A heat travel policy! 6 dog field racing.No track has had corner starts improved, Better safety catching pens, Lure design, Grading, Track Infrastructure improvements? Why? they cost money! to tracks ear/marked for closure! No FUTURE plans beyond 2022! No plans for future increases in P/Monies. The Opposite, when funding runs out for Integrity Darren, and it will! (11 Mill over 5 yr wont come near their targets) We face large increases for Licences, Pup bonds, Sire Fees, Rego Brood bitches etc. No Direction, New Board full of Hand/picked Nodding dogs, A new commissioner and 2 deputies.
More Costs, we will be so top/heavy Darren, our Industry that we love will be bought to it's knees. We have the executioner on standby. Good luck in Victoria (Your on borrowed time to) IMO


Sandro Bechini
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 19488
Dogs 15268 / Races 1856

08 May 2017 00:27


 (0)
 (0)


Nicholas Arena wrote:

Darren I don't think it is a matter of "whinging" many , including yourself, are pointing out the problems that are holding the Industry back and to0 most , why breeding is in decline.

Yes you are right the Industry will only prosper if sufficient Breeding is being undertaken to sustain the racing. But,using your 3 litters in 12 months as an example and an assumption NSW's life cycle ownership and Euthanasia rules are rolled out Nationally ,in conjunction to the ban on exports ,unless you can answer positively to the following questions participants need to be very concerned about the financial impact.
" Do I have sufficient financial resources to breed - rear - break in - pre train 20 pups? Can I place 20 dogs post racing or at a point they are deemed unacceptable for racing? Can I afford to look after up to 20 dogs for 8 plus years at my expense , either on my own property or with someone else? How much prize money will I need to earn to pay for these 20 dogs life cycle?Will I be breeding in years 2 and 3 - if so how many litters and at what cost? - That is rerun the above questions.

Bottom line Darren IMHO if you cannot get dogs through a system and place them efficiently at whatever point required eg - Fail to chase - break down - not of sufficient ability - Trainer calls you "I need this dogs out asap it is not up to my standards" etc the financial model for breeding and racing greyhounds is irrevocably broken. If all any one is doing is breeding in the hope they will exploit a shortage of greyhounds that may lead to higher prize money returns ,without considering the after racing cost/regulations, I would caution them to consider carefully the personal and financial costs associated.

As Anthony says unless you have Deep Pockets and your own facilities to re home your stock be very careful.

These are the big questions for all participants and the very reason why all breeders are reducing their operations

In my opinion the things that need to be done urgently that will go a long way to keeping more dogs on the track and lessening the need to breed more litters are:

These are things that relate to NSW as I live here but could easily be introduced Australia-wide with a bit of effort

1. Equitable spread of prize money from the top to the bottom grades.

Lets face it 90% of dogs that race don't make it to city class and 90% of dogs run more placings than win races.

For most owners and also trainers, it is inequitable to race these dogs with trainers on the current prizemoney levels and fee/split models that are employed in NSW.

These lower levels need to be increased at the expense of the higher levels of prizemoney to encourage trainers to drop the fees and go on a prizemoney split only

We need to give the incentive to owners and trainers race slower dogs and keep them on the track

An adequate/even split of prizemoeny for 1st to 3rd place, which is already in place in NSW is working well

e.g. some people I know have a stayer that has had no wins but run 5 placings in its last 7 TAB/City starts but has picked up over $3k in prizemoney.

In time it will also lead to an increase in the DIY trainer or owner/trainer ranks as keeping such a dog competitive at lower levels will become enjoyable to train dogs as a hobby and not as costly due to prospect of higher returns

It's a model that will suit both pro trainers with high volumes of greyhounds and those with 1-6 greyhounds as well, prize money ticking over is the key

2. The Finish on lure option should be available on at least 50% of all meetings with a standard hoop lure in operation at trial & education tracks and race tracks on trial days

Its been proven time and again that a reward for a greyhound will keep it interested in chasing for an extended period of time

It's about time the blockages were removed by those trying to hold onto the old world

I saw two dogs pull up in winning positions last night at Albion Park.

Races with no rewards are no not working.

3. Grading should be more staggered Maiden, 2 Novice Grades and 6 other grades with entry to Non-Novice grades based on a time standard from its previous 3 wins and then an adequate drop down procedure either based on non-winning starts or failure to maintain time standard

Group racing stays as is, but with sponsorships sought to bolster prize money to much higher levels rather than from the general prizemoney pools, which currently starve the lower levesl

4. Safer tracks with less bend starts. Potentially, development of at least one horseshoe track in each region

5. Six dog fields & FOL compulsory for Maidens and Novice Class racing.

Most of these dogs are young and learning and thus would benefit from a smaller field & incentive at the end of the race.

As they learn and gain confidence they move to 8 dogs fields in graded races and trainers can choose a finish on option or not as per Point 2

6. Breeding statistics & standards also to be kept for sires as well

We have restrictions & standards for females, but there are two sides to every equation, its not always the bitch's fault, like its not always the sire's fault if a litter doesn't hit the heights

They produce more pups than a female. If a sire produces non-chasers or low class stock then its breeding services should be limited

Market forces generally sort it out. But at times, too late.

However, there should be some standards in place, sires with higher standards are allowed to serve more bitches, sires with poor records can also serve a smaller number after 20 litters over 2.5 years of age start having their services reduced

These are some of my thoughts on the matter

Hopefully we get some smart people on the new boards with some vision for the industry





Andrew Plasier
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1279
Dogs 0 / Races 16

08 May 2017 01:04


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I find it ridiculous that they are talking about the hiring of a chief commissioner & a cpl of others who will be highly paid no doubt & most of the 40mil will be spent on integrity & welfare,when there will be no dogs soon so they wont need a integrity commission, they got what they wanted with breeding cut in half, ignoring all the warnings they will now have a massive dog shortage.


Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4138
Dogs 14 / Races 15

08 May 2017 02:15


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1. Everyone stop breeding.
RESULT - CERTAIN CLOSURE OF THE INDUSTRY.

2. Everyone keep breeding within their limits.
RESULT - CERTAIN UNCERTAINTY WITH SOME HOPE.

3. People keep theorizing without action and without power.
RESULT - CERTAIN WORSENING OF THE CURRENT SITUATION.


Robert Morris
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 695
Dogs 0 / Races 0

08 May 2017 06:30


 (0)
 (0)


Michael Geraghty wrote:

1. Everyone stop breeding.
RESULT - CERTAIN CLOSURE OF THE INDUSTRY.

2. Everyone keep breeding within their limits.
RESULT - CERTAIN UNCERTAINTY WITH SOME HOPE.

3. People keep theorizing without action and without power.
RESULT - CERTAIN WORSENING OF THE CURRENT SITUATION.


Agree with n1 but If industry keeps breeding at same levekls then sure to be more restrictions & costs imposed until ptb are happy with levels. unfortunately we have to accept some reduction whether it's now or later


Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4138
Dogs 14 / Races 15

08 May 2017 07:03


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Terry Jordan wrote:

Michael Geraghty wrote:

1. Everyone stop breeding.
RESULT - CERTAIN CLOSURE OF THE INDUSTRY.

2. Everyone keep breeding within their limits.
RESULT - CERTAIN UNCERTAINTY WITH SOME HOPE.

3. People keep theorizing without action and without power.
RESULT - CERTAIN WORSENING OF THE CURRENT SITUATION.


4. Keep following the Voices of the PTB
RESULT- FALL OF CLIFF, AND DIE

Refer point 3.


Michael Geraghty
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4138
Dogs 14 / Races 15

08 May 2017 07:03


 (0)
 (0)


Robert Morris wrote:

Michael Geraghty wrote:

1. Everyone stop breeding.
RESULT - CERTAIN CLOSURE OF THE INDUSTRY.

2. Everyone keep breeding within their limits.
RESULT - CERTAIN UNCERTAINTY WITH SOME HOPE.

3. People keep theorizing without action and without power.
RESULT - CERTAIN WORSENING OF THE CURRENT SITUATION.


Agree with n1 but If industry keeps breeding at same levekls then sure to be more restrictions & costs imposed until ptb are happy with levels. unfortunately we have to accept some reduction whether it's now or later

Refer point 2.


Phil Hall
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 May 2017 07:23


 (0)
 (0)


Mark Staines wrote:

Darren you can't expect people to breed unless they have certainty and that is not the case here in N.S.W.

exactly right more getting out of the industry because of the uncertainty in the industry, pups are hard to sell, vials nothing is going forward only more regulations and costs


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3160
Dogs 12 / Races 0

08 May 2017 07:33


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phil hall wrote:

Mark Staines wrote:

Darren you can't expect people to breed unless they have certainty and that is not the case here in N.S.W.

Well Phil no ones stopping you from gettting out.

Phil there's no certainty in life.

There's no doubt things are going to get tough over the next few years.

But for people that just come on here and whinge I can see why NSW will prob not servive.

NSW has one of the biggest breeders in Australia PAW and stands to loose millions n millions if we close but you don't see him on here whinging.

PAW is still breeding yes his numbers are well down but he hasn't given up hope.

exactly right more getting out of the industry because of the uncertainty in the industry, pups are hard to sell, vials nothing is going forward only more regulations and costs





Phil Hall
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 May 2017 07:40


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 (0)


Darren Langley wrote:

phil hall wrote:

Mark Staines wrote:

Darren you can't expect people to breed unless they have certainty and that is not the case here in N.S.W.

Well Phil no ones stopping you from gettting out.

Phil there's no certainty in life.

There's no doubt things are going to get tough over the next few years.

But for people that just come on here and whinge I can see why NSW will prob not servive.

NSW has one of the biggest breeders in Australia PAW and stands to loose millions n millions if we close but you don't see him on here whinging.

PAW is still breeding yes his numbers are well down but he hasn't given up hope.

exactly right more getting out of the industry because of the uncertainty in the industry, pups are hard to sell, vials nothing is going forward only more regulations and costs

Darren just because you are abit slow on the uptake, and believe in the tooth fairy not my problem why would PAW air his thoughts seen how he has been treated on here





Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7681
Dogs 180 / Races 66

08 May 2017 07:46


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Darren Langley wrote:

But for people that just come on here and whinge

Who??


Phil Hall
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1320
Dogs 21 / Races 21

08 May 2017 07:50


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 (0)


steven martin wrote:

Darren Langley wrote:

But for people that just come on here and whinge

Who??

he takes people's statements and facts as having a whinge


Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7405
Dogs 26 / Races 9

08 May 2017 08:03


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 (0)


we continuing with caution,, in breeding two litters per year ,

however these two litters have resulted in 23 pups which we did not expect as the average is around 7 ,

the first litter we sold 5 kept 7 they were reasonably easy to sell,

the second litter of 11 pups we will have to sell some of them in around 6/8 weeks time ,

and we should get an indication of whether the market is any better/worse than it was 6 months ago ,

i dont think its a time to stick your neck out too far , keep it all manageable and within budget ,, and hopefully things will get better for everyone



Anthony McVicker
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1439
Dogs 24 / Races 126

08 May 2017 09:28


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Darren Langley wrote:

phil hall wrote:

Mark Staines wrote:

Darren you can't expect people to breed unless they have certainty and that is not the case here in N.S.W.

Well Phil no ones stopping you from gettting out.

Phil there's no certainty in life.

There's no doubt things are going to get tough over the next few years.

But for people that just come on here and whinge I can see why NSW will prob not servive.

NSW has one of the biggest breeders in Australia PAW and stands to loose millions n millions if we close but you don't see him on here whinging.

PAW is still breeding yes his numbers are well down but he hasn't given up hope.

exactly right more getting out of the industry because of the uncertainty in the industry, pups are hard to sell, vials nothing is going forward only more regulations and costs

PAW is not on here commenting but the opposite of the below statement applies to his view on the industry

" NSW has one of the biggest breeders in Australia PAW and stands to loose millions n millions if we close but you don't see him on here whinging.

PAW is still breeding yes his numbers are well down but he hasn't given up hope."



Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3160
Dogs 12 / Races 0

08 May 2017 20:22


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 (0)


steven martin wrote:

Darren Langley wrote:

But for people that just come on here and whinge

Who??

You

Yes things aren't great but coming on here whinging day in day out won't fix things.

You forget the reason why we are in this position. We all need to take blame for events that had taken place in the past.


Darren Langley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 3160
Dogs 12 / Races 0

08 May 2017 20:30


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phil hall wrote:

steven martin wrote:

Darren Langley wrote:

But for people that just come on here and whinge

Who??

he takes people's statements and facts as having a whinge

Phil you want FACTS

We did our self no favours with the live baiting FACT,

We only have our self to blame. We know they have gone completing mad with all these new rules.

Brick by brick I believe we can rebuild a once great industry. It may take 10 years.

What I know for sure if we don't breed we are finished.

It's very easy just to come on here and blame every one else for the mess we partly created.

It seems an easy option for some.

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