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Lets help each other out....and make a list of Sires that are offering natural services. I'll kick it off with some that I found in the Chase Magazine in Qld.
DYNA DOUBLE ONE.......$4400 FAST TIMES............$2200 JARVIS BALE...........$1320 KEYBOW................$2700 ZIPPING FELIX.........$880
If you know any sire that offers a natural service....please add them here and I'll continue to update the list in alphabetical order.
David Plumridge Australia (Verified User) Posts 414 Dogs 563 / Races 127 17 Apr 2020 09:50
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Jarvis bale would be 13 years old Greyhound recorder from nsw probably is your best reference for naturals
David Plumridge Australia (Verified User) Posts 414 Dogs 563 / Races 127 17 Apr 2020 09:59
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EXTERNAL LINK Greyhound recorder list of stud dogs Are they taking the piss out of us having natural services roughly $500/$600 more than frozen ?
EXTERNAL LINK Greyhound recorder list of stud dogs Are they taking the piss out of us having natural services roughly $500/$600 more than frozen ?
Thanks for that link David.
Yes Jarvis Bale would not be doing natural serves.....recently I wanted a natural service for Zulu Zeus (as advertised in the Chase mag).....however he was too old......and the add was changed in the next Chase edition. So frozen it was.
Are they taking the piss?......well I just think they don't really want to do it......the FS is way easier for them.
The only advantage of FS for breeders is we can access international sires......and sires that have passed away.
The huge beneficiaries are the studmasters.
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 18 Apr 2020 03:05
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Ricki Hassall wrote:
The only advantage of FS for breeders is we can access international sires......and sires that have passed away.
Also, conception rates are definitely much higher & so are litter sizes (pups per whelpings).
Luke Anderson Australia (Verified User) Posts 39 Dogs 0 / Races 0 18 Apr 2020 10:01
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Id chose frozen over natural any day . I have had options to use a sire naturally numerous times and have chose frozen each time including my own dog , what do you think the benefits are to the mating being done naturally ?
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 18 Apr 2020 10:39
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luke anderson wrote:
Id chose frozen over natural any day . I have had options to use a sire naturally numerous times and have chose frozen each time including my own dog , what do you think the benefits are to the mating being done naturally ?
Simply put with a natural/fresh ai serve you get the full service. With a frozen serve the broodie has to be knocked out, cut open and 1/6 of a straw is put straight on. The only people that benefit from frozen straws are owners if stud dogs, studmasters and vets.
No scientific proof but with frozen there seems to be more misses, smaller pups and randomly more undescended testicles
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 18 Apr 2020 10:48
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david plumridge wrote:
EXTERNAL LINK Greyhound recorder list of stud dogs Are they taking the piss out of us having natural services roughly $500/$600 more than frozen ?
A lot of sires will do a natural if you ask. 95% of studmasters just want numbers on the ground to prove their sire and will do a lot to please breeders. Obviously some studmasters won't do a natural due to having full books or been a bit greedy, but most will try to be accommodating
Luke Anderson Australia (Verified User) Posts 39 Dogs 0 / Races 0 18 Apr 2020 11:12
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Im not sure where you get the 1/6 from . Some dogs only get enough for one straw . Its not normally ever the same split amount therefore sometimes you have no idea of how much has actually gone into the natural mating . The frozen takes the guessing of a mating , I have watched the process a dozen times and its a pretty scientific split , A dog cant afford in this climate to keep missing otherwise will not get used . In my opinion frozen is far less likely to miss . The undescended testicles ? That could 100% be possible . We all have our own opinions but believe me , unless you have one of the top 5 used stud dogs the rest are barely keeping there head above water . General discussion to not trying to argue with anyone on here , simply asking why I always here natural is better . All our top dogs we have bred have come from frozen inseminations .
Luke Anderson Australia (Verified User) Posts 39 Dogs 0 / Races 0 18 Apr 2020 11:15
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Also added to the taking the piss part , blood tests still have to be taken in a natural mating by registered vets . Some can take up to 5 to 6 prog tests , these are included in natural mating price .
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 18 Apr 2020 11:19
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Matt James wrote:
No scientific proof but with frozen there seems to be more misses, smaller pups and randomly more undescended testicles
You sound quite certain of this Matt. Please enlighten us to the facts you have to prove your allegations.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 18 Apr 2020 23:16
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steven martin wrote:
Matt James wrote:
No scientific proof but with frozen there seems to be more misses, smaller pups and randomly more undescended testicles
You sound quite certain of this Matt. Please enlighten us to the facts you have to prove your allegations.
There's no "allegations". Just from what i see and hear.
You very rarely heard of or had a miss or even a small litter when natural/fresh ai was the norm.
10-15 years ago how often would you see 22-23kg runners? There's one in most races now
And the undecended testicles comment? There has always been the odd dog (perocca and Fedex are about all I remember), but not as impactual as currently. Tornado Tears and Poke the Bear were stand out dogs and would be bombarded at stud. They are just a couple of stars from one generation and I'm sure that there is plenty of others. The last 2 litters I've advertised the number 1 question I've been asked is do the males have nuts, so it must be a bit prevalent because I've never really heard that question previously
Not scientific, just my opinion
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 18 Apr 2020 23:40
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But in the same breath I have to mention I think a lot of it comes down to how many times the straws are split (having enough swimmers to split into 5, but not being greedy and splitting into 3 to play it safe). And also the vet that does the insemination.
I have to give credit where it's due, Sires On Ice are the best in Australia. If you get a miss there you know straight away the problem wasn't them.
And i have to back Luke Anderson up, I haven't heard of an Andos Mac (his boy) with a size or retained testicle problem. Same scenario with Aston Dee Bee, hearing no complaints about him either
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 19 Apr 2020 07:58
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Matt James wrote:
There's no "allegations". Just from what i see and hear.
Exactly Matt. It's all hearsay. Without facts, this is just jibber & that's how rubbish talk starts.
Matt James wrote:
You very rarely heard of or had a miss or even a small litter when natural/fresh ai was the norm.
Rubbish again Matt. Totally the opposite to what you're saying. In fact, I'm prepared to go on record and say that there was double the amount of misses before A.I. was the norm. Fact.
Matt James wrote:
10-15 years ago how often would you see 22-23kg runners? There's one in most races now
10-15 years ago there's was twice as much breeding as today. Most "Runts" never made it to the track but now these days, every pup whelped is encouraged to race including 22-23kg runners. But are they really in every race?. I've never noticed so I'll keep an eye on that one.
Matt James wrote:
And the undecended testicles comment? There has always been the odd dog (perocca and Fedex are about all I remember), but not as impactual as currently. Tornado Tears and Poke the Bear were stand out dogs and would be bombarded at stud. They are just a couple of stars from one generation and I'm sure that there is plenty of others. The last 2 litters I've advertised the number 1 question I've been asked is do the males have nuts, so it must be a bit prevalent because I've never really heard that question previously
I've been breeding for decades & because I live let's say, far away...most of my buyers have never seen their purchases until they lobbed on their doorsteps, so the question about "Does he have balls", would've been mentioned in every sale, so nothings changed there.
You're a good lad Matt so don't take this personally. I've been in this industry for more than 40 years & seen & experienced a lot. That may make me sound like an old c$#t but I'd only learnt how to tie my shoe-laces when I held the end of my first led & collar.
Take it easy.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 19 Apr 2020 09:33
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I'm
steven martin wrote:
Matt James wrote:
There's no "allegations". Just from what i see and hear.
Exactly Matt. It's all hearsay. Without facts, this is just jibber & that's how rubbish talk starts.
Matt James wrote:
You very rarely heard of or had a miss or even a small litter when natural/fresh ai was the norm.
Rubbish again Matt. Totally the opposite to what you're saying. In fact, I'm prepared to go on record and say that there was double the amount of misses before A.I. was the norm. Fact.
Matt James wrote:
10-15 years ago how often would you see 22-23kg runners? There's one in most races now
10-15 years ago there's was twice as much breeding as today. Most "Runts" never made it to the track but now these days, every pup whelped is encouraged to race including 22-23kg runners. But are they really in every race?. I've never noticed so I'll keep an eye on that one.
Matt James wrote:
And the undecended testicles comment? There has always been the odd dog (perocca and Fedex are about all I remember), but not as impactual as currently. Tornado Tears and Poke the Bear were stand out dogs and would be bombarded at stud. They are just a couple of stars from one generation and I'm sure that there is plenty of others. The last 2 litters I've advertised the number 1 question I've been asked is do the males have nuts, so it must be a bit prevalent because I've never really heard that question previously
I've been breeding for decades & because I live let's say, far away...most of my buyers have never seen their purchases until they lobbed on their doorsteps, so the question about "Does he have balls", would've been mentioned in every sale, so nothings changed there.
You're a good lad Matt so don't take this personally. I've been in this industry for more than 40 years & seen & experienced a lot. That may make me sound like an old c$#t but I'd only learnt how to tie my shoe-laces when I held the end of my first led & collar.
Take it easy.
Definitely no hard feelings Steve and just because someone has a differing opinion to me I'm not gonna take anything personally. Matter of fact I trust and respect your opinion and knowledge
My personal experience is that it seems some sires are splitting to far and more misses have occured that acceptable, but that can come down to the inseminating vet too (haven't had a miss at sires on ice)
And I can honestly say until recently I'd never been asked about if a pup had balls, but it's also very rare that pups get advertised
Dan Hollywood Australia (Verified User) Posts 4166 Dogs 3 / Races 3 25 Apr 2020 21:26
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luke anderson wrote:
Also added to the taking the piss part , blood tests still have to be taken in a natural mating by registered vets . Some can take up to 5 to 6 prog tests , these are included in natural mating price .
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
