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Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Oct 2020 19:55
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Graham the reds galore are outcross of Which Chariot on the 3rd line. IMO Its more about balancing a pedigree the right way.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Oct 2020 04:08
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Graham the reds galore are outcross of Which Chariot on the 3rd line. IMO Its more about balancing a pedigree the right way.
Darren yes its Which Chariot 2X3 I was looking at this unorthodox pedigree thats out of the square , inbreeding Miss Rainbird, Jeans Dream, Dreams Image etc 4th 5th Generations. Dam-line. Unusual I see red I see red I see red ( good song from 80s Split Enz)
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 18 Oct 2020 01:36
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I was hesitant to post but decided it was possibly relevant to what the post is about - I will be keeping this litter due in 5 weeks. However I think an example of breeding outside the square - bringing the Travelling Girl damline through on both sides.
2020? Sir Dragonet (ex Camelot) - Kingmambo, Danehill, Urban Sea
The pedigree was proven to be a G1 pedigree why I lobbed on yet to be G1 winner Sir Dragonet in the Cox Plate / Moonee Valley Cup double - https://www.flickr.com/photos/190876506@N03/50557987122/
Now to see if it can deliver a MC win for the second time....
Other mentions, both Anthony Van Dyck and Tiger Moth share pedigrees with MC runner-up Johannes Vermeer.
Edward (Ted) Howard Australia (Verified User) Posts 1195 Dogs 16 / Races 0 02 Nov 2020 20:49
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Robynne also brings a double of Gainaway which was a dominant bitch line in Tassie a few years back.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 03 Nov 2020 04:20
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Great ride by Glen Boss...had every chance for 6th. Tiger Moth lived up to Johannes Vermeer and RIP Anthony Van Dyck.
In hindsight I should have made mention of the winner Twilight Payment...as he was closely bred to both Cross Counter and Sir Dragonet - (Teofilo) Urban Sea, Danehill, Nureyev (Kingmambo dam sire)...
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Nov 2020 07:45
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Like all breeding gurus "in hindsight" it all seems so obvious. Thank you for proving my point.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 03 Nov 2020 08:25
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Nothing ventured nothing gained. Who wants to be a sheep...not me!! Did you copy paste that link? 230/1 thank you very much Cross Counter pedigree! Also, why I have an Albion Park 29.65 ...run home 12.37 winner as well!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Nov 2020 21:56
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Fair play to you for your success with Freida. But putting a super quality, group class, beautifully bred Import bitch to a champion race dog who is a proven sire, is hardly "Outside the Square" or a piece of breeding genius.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 03 Nov 2020 22:59
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Whose trying to claim breeding genius? Im too busy enjoying my efforts. Just giving food for thought...which the reader is most welcome to take or leave!
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 03 Nov 2020 23:08
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Something worth noting is that when PAW first starting using USA Semen most American breeders were in favour of nothing closer than a 5x5 cross !!!!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Nov 2020 23:08
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The thread is about Breeding Outside the Square. You used Freida as an example, she most certainly isn't an example of the theory. That's what I'm highlighting
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Nov 2020 23:12
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A true example of Breeding Outside the Square is the Wheeler's attempt at using Coursing Sires and it has been proven to be an abject failure. Certainly brave and worth a try, but a disaster none the less.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 04 Nov 2020 02:41
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Frieda is interesting though...in that she carries two cast off Australian sires. Both of which would have struggled to attract a bitch here in Australia. Not to mention all the BS over the years of Australia having the fastest dogs in the world. With Droopys Hope while bred in Ireland was from if it was to be believed the lowly UK.
If it were left to Data forumites over the years imagine asking should the breeder first use Top Honcho and again Ace Hi Rumble! Both times producing top shelf results. So while Frieda isnt outside the square on face value...shes got plenty of it throughout her dam!
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 04 Nov 2020 03:48
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"I have absolutely no doubt that Australia has the fastest Dogs and has done for a long time"
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 04 Nov 2020 04:38
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Itll only ever be subjective opinion..neither proven or disproven!
Meadows TR - Allen Deed. Sonic Flight grand sire. Heston Bale grand sire. Space Star Sonic Flight Grand sire.
Sandown Park TR - Unlawful Entry Late Late Show grand sire, Bekim Bale Sonic Flight Grand sire. Heres Tears Sonic Flight Grand sire.
Albion Park TR - Sennachie Kelsos Fusileer and Kinloch Brae grand sires. Mepunger Blazer Premier Fantasy grand sire. Tornado Tears Kelsos Fusileer and Sonic Flight.
All have major import influence. Which is a consistent theme. Fast dogs are fast dogs the world over. Sonic Flight was considered a freak in Ire/UK and no surprise to see him in multiple Australian city track record breakers! Nor Bekim Bale going so well as a dam sire...carrying Sonic Flight...
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4497 Dogs 70 / Races 14 04 Nov 2020 05:45
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Gee Darren i didn't know Greyhounds were not native to Australia ROFLMAO !!!! You obviously like me enjoy a bit of research so may i suggest having a look at a Dog called Tell You Why and what he did for the USA Greyhound breed.
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 04 Nov 2020 10:41
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Edward (Ted) Howard wrote:
Robynne also brings a double of Gainaway which was a dominant bitch line in Tassie a few years back.
Sent you a PM Edward (Ted) Howard , thank you
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Nov 2020 18:39
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The daddy of them all. Checkout the inbreeding 4-6 generations I think many of those in this pedigree were coursing dogs CLICK HERE Note 5th dam Forest Fairy produced five Waterloo cup winners ( coursing)
CLICK HERE Once mechanical lure was introduced Irish converted many coursing dogs into track dogs
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19486 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 04 Nov 2020 19:46
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Now this Group winning bitch is on face value, outside the square
CLICK HERE She is from a repeat mating to Bella Infrared
The outside the square part comes from her granddam Dreamin Ethics, a city class bitch, who was by the most unpopular sire Benny's Alarm whose damline is that of the mighty Pitstock Park who was then put to El Galo
Its worthy to note it is a repeat mating to Bella Infrared that previously produced another Group1 performer in Infrared Ethics
Both matings have produced several city class dogs
Hardly fashionable, but very effective as it turned out, in hindsight, that the dam carries the 4 out of the top 5 Australian nicks for Bella Infrared
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
