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Eight Ball from Taste Da Rainbow - Taste Da Rainbow received a ticket for failing to chase at her first start. Again, like the other breeders, it appears this breeder has wanted to line-breed a good honest hard chasing gene in Premier Fantasy. In the attempt to put chase into the pups.

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What it proves is that all our bloodlines are so similar and that the gene pool is continually narrowing leaving fewer options to outcross and maintain the integrity of the breed

Incidences of litters where there are brilliant but iffy chasers are only going to get more prevalent as time wears on due to several lines including imported lines are being linebred over and over

We are not breeding OUTSIDE THE SQUARE....we are still IN THE SQUARE

And with USA lines all but disappearing into oblivion in the next 10 years the square is getting smaller

All you can do really now is to try and breed to proven nicks, try and use a hard chasing female, diversify your lines wherever you can with proven nicks and make sure that your pups are reared well and educated from an early age.

Then you will increase your chances of getting as many to the racetrack as possible

As youre arguing here and been arguing...most wouldnt use these types of bitches. So straight away its outside the square (norm).

How the individual breeders have attempted to fix the issues in their females for great results, is very much inside the square and very sound thinking.

Likewise, what youve mentioned is very sound and logical thinking. The % probably mean getting more to the track, but regardless whether they receive tickets or are just plain legless doing everything right...theyll all end up in the same statistic.

The flip side some absolute champions have been bred from any number of outside the square sires and broods.

Saw recently on Facebook someone stating non-city winner Temora Lee was very iffy...put to a relatively unwanted sire at the time Tivoli Chief...for one of the greats in Temlee.

Many will tell you as fast as Gun Law Osti was on the track, he went missing in finals. As a result at stud breeders barely touched him for years, until it was all too late and he was on 3 legs riddled with cancer...sire of the great Brett Lee.

Those bitches are definitely IN THE SQUARE

And by the way, I haven't been arguing that breeding with iffy fast bitches is not the norm, unfortunately it has been and will still be.

As I said earlier, its been happening for generations, whether you care to admit it or not.

Brood owners, if they latch onto a fast bitch, will in 99% of cases breed with her despite all her faults

They will always look for the sire to correct the fault, and no doubt when it works they are labelled as geniuses, but when it goes pear-shaped, who do they blame?

More poignant a point in determining outside the square...especially when it comes to a bitch with 3 tickets, might be, how many buyers would have wanted to purchase a pup from a bitches first litter that received 3 tickets, such as Full Noise Turbo? Had they been here on Data asking should they breed from her...would have received a positive response?

As far as when it works...that applies everywhere. Tickets...legless from good chaser...again they all end up in the same stat, regardless of the bitch.

This game like so many games is all about headline acts and we now have GWIC and the like protecting your unfortunately and all types of bitches that dont produce the goods argument...still allowing the champs from left field to be bred.

Maybe I should have said from left field...as opposed from outside the square? Either way...if you polled people for would they or wouldnt they...what would the % of people that would agree breeding from a bitch with 3 tickets?

Likewsie slow or poor chasing dogs wouldn't have survived. It's the natural order of things.

Why would you make the onerous task of breeding quality pups even more difficult by using fault riddle parents?

The greyhound game is no different. Except we get to see the genes at work.

Darwin's theory has been totally debunked by the discovery of genetics and dna.
He said every species evolved from a single cell. Its been proven to be false.

As for his conclusion that the strongest survive, can you honestly look at the current generation, who are terrified of getting a flu, who get offended at everything, who can't fight unless they have 6 of their mates to back then up, and cannot survive 1 hour without their smart phone.
Now compare that to just over 100 years ago, when 15yo boys were pretending to be 18yo boys, just to enlist in the army and fight for their country. The same boys who left school at 13 to go wood cutting or shearing.
I think the strongest have died off.

And although putting Fernando Bale over a group winning bitch will get you $15,000 for a pup, it's no guarantee they will be any faster than any other pup.

...it was also a nicely conformed white and black brood bitch called Gail's Beauty. Her first litter, to Keen Student, didn't set the race tracks ablaze. Her second litter to Proper Streak was barely twelve months old when Frank Olsen, her original owner, gave Gail's Beauty to the Wheelers. This litter turned out to be tops, producing Pacermatic, Top Streak and Sir Englisher.
It was her next litter to Miller's Moss, that set the Wheeler operation on its way. Ironically enough, this Miller's Moss litter was advertised for $90 each, but there were no takers.

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Courtesy of David Brasch...

WHEELER (part 2)
PAUL Wheeler, now 60, remembers it like it was yesterday.
His uncle Bruce turned up on his father Allens doorstep with an offer he could not refuse, even though Allen did his best to do just that.
My uncle Bruce offered dad a broodbitch called Gails Beauty but dad didnt want her, said Paul of the mid 1960s happening.
Bruce Wheeler had said the bitchs owner, a Sydney butcher, had sold his business and was moving. He could not take Gails Beauty with him. If Allen Wheeler did not take her, the fate of Gails Beauty was hugely uncertain.
Allen relented, took the bitch and started what is today the worlds most powerful greyhound empire that produces the winners of upwards of $7 million in prizemoney each year and that is on the rise.
Gails Beauty (Hot Top-Secret Beauty), according to Paul Wheeler, had ability as a race dog but he says inconsistency in her racing and training stopped her showing that.
Her kennel name was Lady, said Paul of Gails Beauty. She was built like a bulldog and had a dark brindle patch on one ear.
Her pedigree shows 2x2 in-breeding to Top Linen (Fine Linen-Brenda Gay) and his half sister Tassin (Apeeka-Brenda Gay). Interestingly, Gails Beauty was white and brindle, the same colour as her famous third mother Brenda Gay.
Gails Beauty became an instant broodbitch sensation for the Wheelers.

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They seemed to learn pretty fast though

Because then from there Allen and then PAW only bred with their FASTEST bitches, not necessarily Group winning bitches, to produce the dynasty that there is today

"His uncle Bruce turned up on his father Allens doorstep with an offer he could not refuse, even though Allen did his best to do just that.

My uncle Bruce offered dad a broodbitch called Gails Beauty but dad didnt want her, said Paul of the mid 1960s happening.
Bruce Wheeler had said the bitchs owner, a Sydney butcher, had sold his business and was moving.

He could not take Gails Beauty with him.

If Allen Wheeler did not take her, the fate of Gails Beauty was hugely uncertain.

Allen relented, took the bitch and started what is today the worlds most powerful greyhound empire that produces the winners of upwards of $7 million in prizemoney each year and that is on the rise.

Gails Beauty (Hot Top-Secret Beauty), according to Paul Wheeler, had ability as a race dog but he says inconsistency in her racing and training stopped her showing that.

Her kennel name was Lady, said Paul of Gails Beauty. She was built like a bulldog and had a dark brindle patch on one ear.

Her pedigree shows 2x2 in-breeding to Top Linen (Fine Linen-Brenda Gay) and his half sister Tassin (Apeeka-Brenda Gay).

Interestingly, Gails Beauty was white and brindle, the same colour as her famous third mother Brenda Gay.

Gails Beauty became an instant broodbitch sensation for the Wheelers.

We will bred with between 35 and 40 of them a year. But we pass up two of every three to come on season.

Wheeler said Team 1 of the broodbitches is those proven broodbitches or the really top class bitches just coming off the racetrack.

Team 2 is the broodbitch who has already had a couple of litters and Wheeler is waiting on the progeny of the bitch in question to prove themselves on the racetrack.

Not every quality race bitch will get her chance at Wheeler Kennels.

We physically cant breed with every race bitch coming off the track, said Paul. So we make a judgment on those we have based on their race ability and just how many we can cater for on the property.

You are missing the point, the bitch was fast, it's admitted. And was given to him when he was a newbie.

Since then he has bred from the fastest and best of his bitches.

I doubt he has bred from too many slow bitches. I still remember all the bitches he put to Temlee 35 years ago, they were all city class fast bitches.

The only time he tries to reinvent the wheel is when he needs to outcross a bitch.

You are picking the eyes out of it to suit yourself. There was a period through the early nineties when Wheeler outcrossed to much ridicule. Hes certainly had the last laught. But along the way he bred with plenty of moderately performed bitches.

"Gails Beauty (Hot Top-Secret Beauty), according to Paul Wheeler, had ability as a race dog but he says inconsistency in her racing and training stopped her showing that"

She had ability, enough for him to keep her, even if he didn't really want her.

Yes he outcrossed to USA and Irish sires, we are all totally aware of that, but I am pretty certain all he ever used were city class bitches or bitches with city class speed after his line was established, I grew up in that era and raced against him many times with my dogs

You want to create a champ out of a dodgepot, you go for it