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I think theories is very poor terminology for the whole thread
Semantics. What's a better name for it and we'll run with that?
I have to admit, Darren's "Courage of your own Convictions" Theory was very much ethereal blue sky thinking ;)
A theory is a carefully thought-out explanation for observations of the natural world that has been constructed using the scientific method, and which brings together many facts and hypotheses
In scientific reasoning, a hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Jul 2023 02:40
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I'm trying to find a way to put this without getting deleted and to keep the debate flowing.
Surely Sandro, the "Things" I've listed can be considered Theories, in fact some breeders consider them Laws.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Jul 2023 02:51
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What if your theory is best found in a non-commercial sire? Do you stay the course I.E carry out the courage of your convictions or compromise, justify the theory in a commercial mating?
Remember, no matter the sire, they all bat at woeful percentages and champion broods dont throw to cattle dogs, just look at National Lass to Brother Fox. As opposed to what his sons and Pretty Short did!
So, plenty to be gained from courage of your convictions!
I'm trying to find a way to put this without getting deleted and to keep the debate flowing.
Surely Sandro, the "Things" I've listed can be considered Theories, in fact some breeders consider them Laws.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Most breeders are looking for the magic wand, it doesn't exist!!
Thats why most of them all follow the pack
Like I said I can find a number of those common principles in any mating I have done
It will just depend on who is looking at it and making commentary
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Jul 2023 03:14
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OK let's call it "Breeding Art", surely that is a more appropriate title. It certainly isn't a science and it is always beautiful in the eye the beholder.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Jul 2023 03:17
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Darren's post just reminded me of another "Breeding Art"
Tesio
Rasmussen Cross
X Path
Proven to Proven
Through the Middle
Nicks and Clicks
Lots of Temlee good, even more Temlee better.
Best to Best (Hope for the Best)
Head Honcho, New Tears, Chariot Supreme & Bowetzel in 3 of the ancestors Theory
18.8% Theory
Lemon Soda Cross in the X
Line Breeding
3 x 3 and 3 x 2 Theory
Outcross
Courage of your Convictions
Outside the Square
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 06 Jul 2023 03:55
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Darren's post just reminded me of another "Breeding Art"
Tesio
Rasmussen Cross
X Path
Proven to Proven
Through the Middle
Nicks and Clicks
Lots of Temlee good, even more Temlee better.
Best to Best (Hope for the Best)
Head Honcho, New Tears, Chariot Supreme & Bowetzel in 3 of the ancestors Theory
18.8% Theory
Lemon Soda Cross in the X
Line Breeding
3 x 3 and 3 x 2 Theory
Outcross
Courage of your Convictions
Outside the Square
It isn't as bad as it once was because pup sales have slowed, but you've forgotten the most common breeding theory. Blindly go to the flavour of the month sire to sell pups for top dollar
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Jul 2023 03:57
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Agree there Paul, breeding has always been an art!!
This was my theory behind this litter. I read somewhere that Elusive Rebel was a fighter. I wanted heaps of aggression in my pups. I thought we could use love and discipline during rearing to harness the aggression. That was the theory. But I had no idea what I was doing. Now that I know what I'm doing, I still can't breed a litter that's even close to that one.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Jul 2023 05:08
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Tesio
Rasmussen Cross
X Path
Proven to Proven
Through the Middle
Nicks and Clicks
Lots of Temlee good, even more Temlee better.
Best to Best (Hope for the Best)
Head Honcho, New Tears, Chariot Supreme & Bowetzel in 3 of the ancestors Theory
18.8% Theory
Lemon Soda Cross in the X
Line Breeding
3 x 3 and 3 x 2 Theory
Outcross
Courage of your Convictions
Outside the Square
Flavour of the Month
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 06 Jul 2023 19:30
This was my theory behind this litter. I read somewhere that Elusive Rebel was a fighter. I wanted heaps of aggression in my pups. I thought we could use love and discipline during rearing to harness the aggression. That was the theory. But I had no idea what I was doing. Now that I know what I'm doing, I still can't breed a litter that's even close to that one.
Wait for it Jamie. Now that you have revealed that mating someone will tell you why it worked. Cheers ]
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Jul 2023 22:09
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Interesting Cape Hawke (via Data) only had 2 Pure Octane bitches linebreeding as we now know is elite - Elusive Rebel - for Group class in one litter and a city winner in the other - from what looks an unraced brood. Which is what you said your aim was to do Jamie. So, wheres the luck in that? You had method to your breeding.
Its been a common thing to do in the past for success I.E cross 1/2 brothers up close - Railway Road & Amerigo Magic come to mind. As does the very first litter I purchased out of in greyhounds Pats Vendetta.
So whether you call it luck Jamie, it also had some sound precedent set. Tiggerlong Tonk shows it in existence through the generations.
Interesting Cape Hawke (via Data) only had 2 Pure Octane bitches linebreeding as we now know is elite - Elusive Rebel - for Group class in one litter and a city winner in the other - from what looks an unraced brood. Which is what you said your aim was to do Jamie. So, wheres the luck in that? You had method to your breeding.
Its been a common thing to do in the past for success I.E cross 1/2 brothers up close - Railway Road & Amerigo Magic come to mind. As does the very first litter I purchased out of in greyhounds Pats Vendetta.
So whether you call it luck Jamie, it also had some sound precedent set. Tiggerlong Tonk shows it in existence through the generations.
No Darren, I never called it luck but I heard quite a few others telling me how 'lucky' I was to have that litter.
I was always kicking myself for all the work the missus and I put into rearing them, teaching them, feeding only the highest quality, etc. We should have just thrown a heap of scraps over the fence and let luck and pedigrees do the rest.
JQ
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 06 Jul 2023 23:00
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Exactly, itll always be a collective effort. Step 1, step 2 etc. care of the brood Step 1, pedigree step 2, etc.
Like anywhere in life, the harder you work, the luckier you become.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 06 Jul 2023 23:51
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Yaakov Rishon wrote:
Darren Leeson wrote:
Interesting Cape Hawke (via Data) only had 2 Pure Octane bitches linebreeding as we now know is elite - Elusive Rebel - for Group class in one litter and a city winner in the other - from what looks an unraced brood. Which is what you said your aim was to do Jamie. So, wheres the luck in that? You had method to your breeding.
Its been a common thing to do in the past for success I.E cross 1/2 brothers up close - Railway Road & Amerigo Magic come to mind. As does the very first litter I purchased out of in greyhounds Pats Vendetta.
So whether you call it luck Jamie, it also had some sound precedent set. Tiggerlong Tonk shows it in existence through the generations.
No Darren, I never called it luck but I heard quite a few others telling me how 'lucky' I was to have that litter.
I was always kicking myself for all the work the missus and I put into rearing them, teaching them, feeding only the highest quality, etc. We should have just thrown a heap of scraps over the fence and let luck and pedigrees do the rest.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
