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Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Aug 2023 19:30
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Bekim Bale as a dam sire, continues the elite staying tradition. With Ballistic Ant winning her way through to the G1 National Distance Final. Ballistic Ant is once again Fernando Bale over Bekim Bale (Tornado Tears, Super Estrella & Five Star). However, Blazing Cartier (ex My Bro Fabio), Embye (ex Keybow) and new kid on the block brother Heston Bale as dam sire of Valpolicella (ex Shima Shine), shows the freakish distance performances arent the domain of being sired by Fernando Bale.
With both the dams of Embye (Slip Sliding 27 starts 2-2-6; Ipswich 30.94, 31.19) and Ballistic Ant (Bionic Black Ant 2 starts 0-0-1, ticket for pulling up in the back straight). Showing the worth of embedding Bekim Bale in a dam line. Of course we now see Bekim Bale further embedded in the likes of Trooper Tears, Trapper Tears and Like Wildfire.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 09 Aug 2023 21:24
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Can you really attribute the success to the dam sire, in those examples? The vast majority of the quality comes from the dominant dam lines surely. They are from the greatest staying dam lines in the country.
You've done your usual thing and highlighted that some of the good pups came from ordinarily performed bitches, but forgot to mention that the best top second offspring of Bekim Bale come from champion staying race bitches.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Aug 2023 21:40
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Which are the sum of all the [sired] parts. So, youre happy to go further removed to justify your position and wipeout 25% of the immediate pedigree?
Both Bekim Bale and Heston Bale held the Sandown and Meadows track records. The examples above also see Tornado Tears and Super Estrella holding city track records. With the other examples, not just Group class, but extra fast as well.
Youve shown, that Bekim Bale put strength into the dam line in the first generation. Ive highlighted its continuance.
Valpolicella is the interesting one. Its an old Queensland dam line - Sleepy Saint, Look At Maria etc. wheres the proliferation of staying blood in that dam line, before Heston Bale was used?
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 09 Aug 2023 22:16
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It's actually an Irish dam line and you are doing your usual again, selecting one example to suit your argument.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Aug 2023 22:28
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Back in 1985 yes. It didnt seem to add strength out here though did it. That really has come about, using Heston Bale.
Look at Jarvis Bale carrying the shared Sonic Flight as Bekim Bale. Won the National distance and sired Allen Deed who won a Sale Cup. His dam Greta Bale, just got the 520m. Jarvis Bales dam had 132 starts and never put over 600m, let alone 700.
Theres plenty of merit in Bekim Bale adding strength to a dam line and the potential for elite staying blood.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 09 Aug 2023 23:24
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Pretty sure Alf Shorter (An Irishman himself I recall) imported the dam line into Australia along with a stud dog, but his name escapes me. The dam line has always been strong, no matter what you think or say. Even if it wasn't, one example doesn't prove your theory. When the vast majority of examples you provided show the the dam lines were always strong. Now you a bringing in a completely different sire, because you can't find good examples with Bekim Bale.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 00:37
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Show me where its alway been strong. People talk about block genes e.g sons of Barcia traits etc. Im highlighting a shared gene of Sonic Flight, its all relevant.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 02:56
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You are a master at distracting and deflecting from the essence of the conversation. Darren ,you are doing exactly that here yet again. The vast majority of the dogs you are claiming have been strengthened by having Bekim Bale in their pedigree are from great staying damlines already. You are wrong with your assessment. Bekim Bale had bugger all to do with it. We'll see when you get some poor sucker to breed from that ordinary Bekim Bale bitch you've been trying to palm off recently. That would prove your point, but I bet it doesn't.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 03:18
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Shes no longer advertised. Im breeding her next season. As was always intended. Guess we shall see, because shes better performed than both the dam of Embye (Wenty 29.40, 41.88, Sandown 41.55) and Ballistic Ant (multiple Group 1 staying finalist). And like the Valpolicella dam line, the Ballinderry Girl dam line isnt renowned for staying strength!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 03:28
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That will prove both your pedigree mastery and this theory all in one hit. Good luck with her.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 03:38
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OK let's look at Valpolicella
Dam was a stayer. Strong
Grand dam but for injury, could have been a stayer? Strong?
Great Grand dam won over 600+ and won plenty of 500 races. Strong
Great Great Grand dam won over 600+, including the tough 535m of the Richmond Oaks. Strong
Great Great Great Gran dam I've been reliably informed by someone who raced against her, was very strong but injury prone and did a lot of straight racing because of it. Strong.
Shot down in flames my friend.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 04:04
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You sure are riding the ballast, trying not to sink ;)
You cant have the dam Saldana, because shes my point. The addition of Bekims brother Heston and my direction of Sonic Flight.
2nd dam all hypothetical, so you cant have that one either. Though, breeding to US blood is renowned for strength. Which again proves my point of breeding for strength.
And so on, youre not giving me the number 7 in any of your examples.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 04:21
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Here we go again with you being selective to suit your narrative. You don't know if the great grand dam was or wasn't strong, so no one wins that one, which is exactly my point. Every other bitch behind her most certainly was very strong, back 5 or so generations inclusive.
You are the one clinging to the flotsam and jetsam. I'm afraid to say you are Jack (Leonardo DiCaprio) and I am Rose (Kate Winslet) in the final Titanic scene.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 04:27
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Shes no longer advertised. Im breeding her next season. As was always intended. Guess we shall see, because shes better performed than both the dam of Embye (Wenty 29.40, 41.88, Sandown 41.55) and Ballistic Ant (multiple Group 1 staying finalist). And like the Valpolicella dam line, the Ballinderry Girl dam line isnt renowned for staying strength!
Of course you will have to breed with her next season, one no else was interested in breeding from her and two it will be difficult to get her cleared after that, as she is heading towards 8 years of age.
So who is she going to and why? Please tell us now, so you aren't pretending to be wise after the fact. Which is your customary technique for pedigree analysis.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 04:53
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Droopys Hope got 515m, but she was run down over 575m. Bekim Bale was used initially in Oz to get 500+ racers. I then bred to My Bro Fabio to again get 500+ racers. I then bred to Barcia Bale, because I felt the pedigree could produce class and hoped it would get 500m. I was spot on each time. I set the platform for the dam, nothing wise after the fact.
The fact Ive held on to her all this time says it all. Ive rehomed others all along the way. I just have too many pups this year. Otherwise shed already have been bred to No Easy Beat. You can tell us all why LOL
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 06:40
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I'm not doing the mating and definitely aren't the self proclaimed breeding expert. I'll leave that to you to explain.
You put one of the best performed, best bred bitches ever to come to Australia to the three most fashionable sires of their time, for good results. It was hardly breeding genius.
Just to clarify George Zammit bred the Barcia Bale litter.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 06:56
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Yep
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 09:10
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Your post has been removed. My reply
I give a sire a platform. Because I see merit in what they have to offer. The game needs diversity. Youre too obsessed with me, to even be interested in the real reasons. Could care less.
Id love to see people realise the worth in Bekim Bale and even use him today. Hold on to a female and breed with their Bekim Bale bitch. You cant get any worse traits that Bionic Black Ant getting a ticket for pulling up in the back straight at her 3rd start - to breeding a multiple Group 1 finalist on the elite Fernando Bale / Bekim Bale cross. I wonder whether thats why the breeder bred with her?
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 10 Aug 2023 09:28
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Just out of interest guys
Zoha Bale powers to the line from midfield to win the Victorian State Final
Allen Deed the sire, grandson of Sonic Flight
Mum, Sammy Allen, by Fernando Bale
Grandam, Irma Bale, a SISTER to BEKIM/HESTON BALE
Thus the mating doubles up Sonic Flight
Also carries a double of Goldrush Bale via Bartrim Bale and Greta Bale
There has to be something in it Paul, even though you want to argue against it till you re blue in the face
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 10:05
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Like I've said so many times before, if you want to see something badly enough you will. Surely the RasX to Rosemary Bale and Gold Rush Bale has had a strong influence to. But yet again this isn't an example of what the topic is about. This is about Bekim Bale, not Sonic Flight.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
