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Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 13 Jan 2010 00:20
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Have 4 month old pups that have what has been called "Charlie Chaplin" front feet ie instead of being straight and in line with the leg they point outwards.
Their mother was the same so could be genetic, didn't seem to hinder her ability to gallop as she won 8 city races in quick time.
Do breeders and or trainers have an opinion to offer ?
Cheers.
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 13 Jan 2010 00:33
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G'day Pat, I had a pup at about the same age with that condition.
After about 10 weeks of extra calcium and adjustment of food intake ie: less protein for the same time frame, the condition cleared up and then he was back on the same diet as the other litter mates.
He is now 11 months old and has no side-effects and his feet are perfect.
Ian Rose Australia (Verified User) Posts 941 Dogs 6 / Races 11 13 Jan 2010 09:22
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have never seen one with what we call goofy feet, thats been any good,yours is the first ive heard of to win in town.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 1801 Dogs 6 / Races 0 13 Jan 2010 10:44
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I saw a dog in the care of a top trainer (lets call him Terry), after Sat morning trials at Sandown at least 10 yrs ago with a dog that looked like he had a club foot.
I said to him "gee it wldn't be much good wld it ? "
He said, "he wldn't know it, he's won 10 in town".
Troy, can you pls go into a little more detail of what you fed him ?
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 636 Dogs 16 / Races 1 13 Jan 2010 19:37
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Pat I think we will get it sorted, I haven't had a chance to call you as yet. I spoke to you about what JM said, and the pups were looked at yesterday afternoon - we have a plan in place for extra calcium and a few extras which I will speak to you about. They are very heavily boned pups, and are also teething at the moment which I had not taken into account.
They have absolutely no problems whatsoever galloping, actually poetry in motion all of them and hellish quick for their age so I will keep my eyes closed a LOT of the time with them ! lol - I'll send you a video if I can catch them in the frame. Will be in touch :-)
Broc Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 1444 Dogs 7 / Races 3 13 Jan 2010 20:37
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I have a dog in training that has this problem and he has had some sesamoid problems(cracks) but after some time off and a slowly slowly approach he seems to have come good. He is the fastest dog I have owned and will hopefully have his first start next month.
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 13 Jan 2010 20:48
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
I saw a dog in the care of a top trainer (lets call him Terry), after Sat morning trials at Sandown at least 10 yrs ago with a dog that looked like he had a club foot.
I said to him "gee it wldn't be much good wld it ? "
He said, "he wldn't know it, he's won 10 in town".
Troy, can you pls go into a little more detail of what you fed him ?
G'day Ryan, He was fed on a lean chicken diet with a kibble low in protein (can't remember which one but I can find out). DCP and Calci-D. The idea was to slow his growth rate in order to give his legs / feet to "catch up" with the rest of his body, worked a trick!!
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 13 Jan 2010 20:59
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Also his feet were pretty bad, the amazing thing was how quickly it took to correct itself. I have to say he was a little over weight before hand which didn't help but it wouldn't have stop it happening anyway. The correct name for the condition is "splayed feet" and Carol Brown told me that she had one that raced with this condition and won some races too. So I don't think it's a big deal if you can correct it or not, but I think if you treat it soon enough you can get it right. And as we all know this game is hard enough with out have any kind of handicap, big or as small as splayed feet.
Ian Rose Australia (Verified User) Posts 941 Dogs 6 / Races 11 13 Jan 2010 23:44
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Splayed feet is a completely different condition to goofy legs where the feet point markedly out rather than sraight or the preferred pigeon toed look. slayed feet is the opposite to cat feet which is the preferred option.
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 14 Jan 2010 01:48
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pat hennessy wrote:
Have 4 month old pups that have what has been called "Charlie Chaplin" front feet ie instead of being straight and in line with the leg they point outwards.
Their mother was the same so could be genetic, didn't seem to hinder her ability to gallop as she won 8 city races in quick time.
Do breeders and or trainers have an opinion to offer ?
Cheers.
Ian, the condition that Pat has descibed is that the pups feet point outwards........... Splayed feet.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 1801 Dogs 6 / Races 0 14 Jan 2010 11:23
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Much appreciated Troy, wish I had known sooner. Had one a few yrs ago, that was the biggest in the litter one foot was v/bad. Thx again.
Sue Burley Australia (Verified User) Posts 5559 Dogs 10310 / Races 14781 14 Jan 2010 11:42
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I think you have misunderstood Troy, what Ian said is correct, when the feet point outwards it is known as Goofy feet or Charlie Chaplin feet as Pat said. Splayed feet is an entirely different thing where the foot and toes are not like that of a cat which are high off the ground, but rather flat with the toes elongated, I suppose a bit like people with flat feet.
And I have friend who will always pick a pup with Charlie Chaplin feet and a narrow chest.....ugh!!! But then he has also won races in town with them so who knows. Personally I prefer the wide chested pigeon toed type.
Mark Glennerster United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 3208 Dogs 0 / Races 0 14 Jan 2010 18:21
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Its funny how people have different names for certain confirmational conditions throughout the world, I have not heard of "Charlie Chaplin feet" since I left Oz back in the late 70's.
The condition Ian referred too as splayed feet is called flat feet or extended toes in England and Ireland or flat foot here in the States. Splayed feet refer to a foot that is slightly or even grossly turned out and of course pidgeoned toed seems to be universal.
Troy Scott Australia (Verified User) Posts 1573 Dogs 19 / Races 36 14 Jan 2010 19:52
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Scooner........Pot........ Still a bloody glass of beer!!!
Mark Glennerster United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 3208 Dogs 0 / Races 0 14 Jan 2010 21:43
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Scott,
I'll have a Touhy's old, if they still do it.
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 636 Dogs 16 / Races 1 14 Jan 2010 22:26
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Just to verify these pups have their feet turning outwards which is what is referred to "east-west front" by show breeders. The term splayed feet is in describing a dog that has toes that spread apart instead of having a well knuckled catlike foot. These pups have good "feet".
Upon doing a bit more research I have found that the condition should be improved by dietary changes and additives such as extra Calcium and Ester C (which is known to strengthen these areas).
I found information that if the pup has straight legs when suspended from under the chest it is most likely not getting enough of something nutritionally. If the legs stay "east west" when the puppy is suspended from the ground in this same way it is a genetic deformity in either the pastern area or in the shoulder placement.
These pups have pretty much straight legs when suspended, so I feel we have a good chance of correcting/changing the condition by a good degree. I also feel that being so heavily boned has added extra pressure to the pastern area, and the fact that they are teething adds to all of this.
Ideally along with diet roadwork on a hard surface can help strengthen the area, but this may not be an option as I can not see myself being able to take them to a bitumen road to walk them.
I think now they are free galloping they will also improve, and going on what I see already I'll most likely be on Prozac in another month as they sure can cover the ground at a rate of knots even now lol
regards Robynne
Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 14 Jan 2010 22:30
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Mark if you go to Newcastle (NSW) they all drink it & by the schooner full (15 fluid ounces).
Commonly called "Black".
Cheers.
Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 14 Jan 2010 22:35
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Ian rose wrote:
have never seen one with what we call goofy feet, thats been any good,yours is the first ive heard of to win in town.
Ian i have a sneaking suspicion that "New Fox" had the condition i mentioned.
He could run a little bit.
Cheers.
Pat Hennessy Australia (Verified User) Posts 1553 Dogs 6 / Races 6 14 Jan 2010 22:42
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Funny how "grog" has entered the debate.
Robin told me yesterday long before this was mentioned that she has given the two dog pups kennell names of "GUINESS" and "COOPER", might be an omen ??
Cheers.
Ian Rose Australia (Verified User) Posts 941 Dogs 6 / Races 11 14 Jan 2010 22:51
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Not new fox,I tried to buy one from that litter as golden fox was a fav of mine,they were all well conformed.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
