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Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6224 Dogs 8 / Races 5 11 Aug 2010 22:55
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And if that's not a direct 'knock', what is?
Anyway, that's enough for me, hopefully you do likewise.
ps...It might pay to follow your own advice given in your own thread Wayne,
'quote' U can read how tha rest r going.. If ur not interested dont read-reply-or have a opinion. Simple..as iv said iv got bitchs sold next litter and was askd in another topic 4 2 bitchs 2 a usa sire..a owner ov a ct x la has askd 4 a bitch nxt litter if usa sire.. Seemz some people understand her genne pool and what it has and cotinue 2 produce class stock.. Cheers wayne Ps if u all dnt like Dnt read-coment Or gve ur opinions..
Dan Hollywood Australia (Verified User) Posts 6026 Dogs 28 / Races 32 11 Aug 2010 23:02
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RAY BROWN wrote:
I agree with that too Sandro, while admitedly the Wheeler sireline has been a bit thin on the ground in the past, times and opportunities change and todays crop may well be the start of it. Personally, I think it's a bit rich for you Wayne to analytically criticise wheelers sireline whilst at the same time, go way over the top espousing the 'brilliance' of AMERICAN damlines (namely your own) and how they will virtually re-invent the breeding wheel, so to speak , when they are totally unproven and an unknown factor in Australia. That I find very hard to swallow.
Ray there are so many australian bitches that struggle, whats the odds for an american.
Wayne Garner Australia (Verified User) Posts 6124 Dogs 41 / Races 43 11 Aug 2010 23:05
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This will b my last post on this topic?? Paul i wish u well with tha dogs..in no way was i being distrespect full 2 wardz tha dogs as racers. Both champz.. Stud diffrent game.. Its just hind sit.. Bale dogs dnt make studz.. N Sobing sal daughters no good in tha barn?? Cheers wayne
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 11 Aug 2010 23:58
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Wayne, you jump down peoples throat for not not agreeing with your views on the American outcross or for having a negative comment but thats what our doing here.
Doesnt need to be slander or disrespectful - Its just a case IMO that how can you have rights to have a go at people with a negative comment then assume you have rights to do it.
Stating 'im not trying to be negative' then coming out with that, your only contradicting yourself. dont have anything nice to say shut up isnt that your way to it all?
First of all congrats Paul on all your ventures, our a trainer i admire and i respected the time you took when i visited early last yr. Not many trainers, esp with the profile you have would take the time. I learnt a bit and also got some incentive to keep battling on thru the sh!t times in dogs because the property, and things you have achieved in the sport, i would love to experience one day.
Secondly, I think Paul is smart enough when it comes to bloodlines. Just my opinion but the damlines i know of most are wheelers and paul westervelds. A lot of lines dont trace to a person. Paul IMO knows his stuff in with bloodlines, thats why success follows via what he breeds himself - Not to just go out and spent a few hundred thousand and have a good dog handed.
Last but not least to my novel (eh i dont write often anymore so gotta make each time worth it ;) ) Is Dyna Lachlan really going to suffer over other dogs from the line failing at stud many many yrs ago? Really? Thats how we are judging sires now? Jesus! The line has changed since, and for the better its stronger, more consistent, and even more dominating for those factors. To go along with some things you say Wayne, Wheeler doesnt go over the top with his studs, so why send DL to Paul... he must expect something and want to give the dog every chance at stud.
Ok this will be the last (sorry lol) GWT straws are scarce so taking into consideration the insemination fee also, i feel DL is great value and also makes a quality sire to suit many wanting GWT but having him out of reach. Of the top of my head i cant even think of any other GWT sires in Aus cept Regal Ricky who i dont think had a fair shot either.
Ok Im done lol.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 12 Aug 2010 00:15
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To be honest with people Wayne is only going on stats,Stats like Pacermatic,Billy Bale,Sir Englisher,Nimrod Boy and then you come to the dogs that have been mentioned here by Wayne and Dyna Lachlan.Wayne as a breeder can only go on hindsight or stats and give an opinion from them and what they are may offend some.In my opinion there is a Bale bitch sitting here in my yard now and it,s the very stats that Wayne mentions why I am reluctant to take her to Buttsy Bale Whisky Assassin Dyna Lachlan they carry the right blood thru the dams but my theories also go beyond that to the previous sires from the different Bale lines over the years right back to Billy Bale
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6224 Dogs 8 / Races 5 12 Aug 2010 00:16
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This bloke is doing OK from very limited opportunities, he has recently served Iza Tora the dam of MR METZ, that litter should give him the chance to display his wares to the fullest.
Jaime Lloyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 1022 Dogs 60 / Races 4 12 Aug 2010 00:18
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RAY BROWN wrote:
This bloke is doing OK from very limited opportunities, he has recently served Iza Tora the dam of MR METZ, that litter should give him the chance to display his wares to the fullest.
Didnt even think of Bushy, how the hell did he pass thru my mind. Would love to see what he could do with more chances. I hope the Iza Tora litter shine like Metz' litter! Would love to see that for Bill.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6224 Dogs 8 / Races 5 12 Aug 2010 00:21
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Yes John, but Wayne didn't have to jump in on a stud dog thread and 'drop the bucket' on him with negatives...as I have eluded to, Wayne is the 1st to complain, bitch and bellow when someone interupts his promotional posts and does it to his own pride and joy.
Wayne Garner Australia (Verified User) Posts 6124 Dogs 41 / Races 43 12 Aug 2010 00:52
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Ray. I said nothn negative about no dog?? Whatz bushy got 2 do with bale sire lines. Talk about of topic?.and self promoting. Cheers wayne Ps john mb has good blood in her..she dnt need updating just got 2 get tha sire right..ur breeding 4 race dogs?? U have a topbrood
Dean Parker Australia (Verified User) Posts 542 Dogs 58 / Races 11 12 Aug 2010 01:03
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Great to see the very good chaser Dyna Lachlin get every chance at Stud. Easily accessable nationwide due to the fine work of a friendly and down to earth studmaster going places. Best of luck with him Westy.
Barry Parker Australia (Verified User) Posts 145 Dogs 1 / Races 0 12 Aug 2010 01:30
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wheeler dogs trained by graham bate stud dogs very ordinary track record i would not be busting my boiler to use them time will tell i will wait and see and by the way everybody is entitled to their opinion
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7402 Dogs 26 / Races 9 12 Aug 2010 01:43
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barry parker wrote:
wheeler dogs trained by graham bate stud dogs very ordinary track record i would not be busting my boiler to use them time will tell i will wait and see and by the way everybody is entitled to their opinion
the dog that the topic is supposed to be about (dyna lachlan) was not trained by graeme bate
Paul Westerveld Australia (Verified User) Posts 605 Dogs 111 / Races 62 12 Aug 2010 02:00
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As Barry just said "everyone is entitled to their own opinion" and I take no offence to anyone having theirs. You have to have a thick skin to be a studmaster and I've learnt that already.
As I said earlier with my opinion that you can't compare previous dogs from 30 years, 20 years ago or even 10 years ago when you can't even compare dogs that have gone to stud in the past that were brothers and shared the same DNA. Some produce one type of dog, their brother can produce the opposite and some don't produce at all!!! S@#t, my parents produced my sister who's a degree from Monash University in "Genetic Science" and was the dux of her high school and my only degree is a card with Paul Westerveld-Greyhound Trainer on it. Ha Ha
Dyna Lachlan is the complete package. Has the perfect temperament I can guarantee that and will show anyone that visits my facility to see the stud dogs. He was the perfect race dog and I can't think of a dog that has done much more up to age 2 years and 10 months. His litter was fantastic as his his dam line. He had speed, strength and would chase through a brick wall! He was the perfect race dog and to me he ticks every box in an unproven sire.
Paul Wheeler's already put three to him with one more here now to mate shortly. I've mated two more with him in the past three days. One frozen is on the go. Miss Slick's just booked in and I've spoken to two Victorian breeders in the past couple of day that have bred multiple Group 1 dogs that can't wait to use him. You don't have a stud dog if you don't get the support from the breeders so thank you to everyone that use's mine.
I appreciate everyone's input.
Paul
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 12 Aug 2010 02:22
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Paul what brood line did are the 3 of PW bitches
Jimmy Corbo Australia (Verified User) Posts 435 Dogs 16 / Races 126 12 Aug 2010 02:46
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Ahaaa..... So the secret is out, it's your sister that is the brains behind the success of Paul Westerveld....LOL
Paul Westerveld Australia (Verified User) Posts 605 Dogs 111 / Races 62 12 Aug 2010 03:06
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John,
The three mated so far are daughters of Faithfull Hawk, Spiral Nikita and Stately Bird. One here is by Elle's Commando and he's mated a Whisky Assassin and Sonic Flight from other breeders so far.
Jimmy,
She's the brains no doubt. The success I've had is mainly thanks to my wife, Mum, Dad and a bit of calculated luck.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6224 Dogs 8 / Races 5 12 Aug 2010 03:10
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barry parker wrote:
wheeler dogs trained by graham bate stud dogs very ordinary track record i would not be busting my boiler to use them time will tell i will wait and see and by the way everybody is entitled to their opinion
I agree Barry, but I completely dislike 'hypocrits' that's why I have singled out only the one person, if you read my replies you will see why, extreme hypocracy in my opinion (I'm entitled to my opinion also).
Wayne Garner Australia (Verified User) Posts 6124 Dogs 41 / Races 43 12 Aug 2010 03:34
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I wasnt going 2 post.. As we have each 2 each owns opinion.. I wish paul 4 tha best.. Just from my point ov veiw??opinion only.. Head honcho sons never went on in aust at stud bar gwt.. And in his 8yrs at stud how many sons were studz??? Its statz i as a breeder look At...all Stud marsters will tell U there nans apple pie better Then the Next 1 No offence 2 Paul They all do it..i follow sirelines that r sire lines and only 2 that have dominated. Ginger Credibility Both have numarus sire lines around.. If 1was 2 go on it could b turanza bale-ginger line Cheerz wayne
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 12 Aug 2010 04:21
Rod Hampton Australia Posts 1626 Dogs 2993 / Races 11816 12 Aug 2010 11:08
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Re: "lack of success of Wheeler dogs as sires". Apart from Lansley Bale, the wheelers have been singularly missing in the promotion of their stud dogs, until now, and that is from Mr Westerveld. Wheeler kennels have studiously avoided the advent of the internet as a marketing tool, concentrating on obtaining great success from their racers. However, with some reasonable marketing, I'm sure many of their good race dogs will become accomplished sires of note, and I wish them well.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
