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Jeff Holland Australia (Verified User) Posts 4831 Dogs 145 / Races 12 12 Aug 2010 11:37
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Lack of promotion hasnt been the problem, and as proof I give you the constant comment on Kantarn Bale, and how breeders would have used him.
The number one reason is the same as why most dogs dont attract bitches, there have been other dogs judged as better by the vast majority of breeders.
Couple that with the popular theory that some lines dont produce sires, and the general reluctance of breeders to use sires from certain trainers, and its hard for them to establish.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 12 Aug 2010 22:33
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I agree with you Jeff, Kantarn Bale was an absolute champ and if he was fertile, I would have used him in a heart beat, another reason that the Wheeler bred sires have not featured heavily in the stud ranks may well be because, they are mass producers of stock and their trainers are given multiple dogs to train, similar to a production line system, mere economics dictates that these trainers will race these dogs week in week out and at tracks that may not necesarily suit them. It was common practice to see a Wheeler trainer turn up with multiple trailer loads of dogs, therefore even the topnotchers suffered many defeats interspersed with the wins in generally long extended racing careers , which in turn affected their final race records at the end of their careers. That to me, is one of the main reasons most Wheeler dogs were overlooked when compared to others studs with much better strike rates. Show me a Wheeler owned dog that retired to stud after limited starts and a solitary group win, they just aren't there and that tells it's own story, The Wheelers breed to race, not produce stud dogs. For mine, it's only a matter of time, as these days the Wheeler dogs are undoubtedly performing better on the tracks and the multiple infusion of overseas blood is also dispersing their line and changing the game somewhat.
Wayne Garner Australia (Verified User) Posts 6124 Dogs 41 / Races 43 12 Aug 2010 22:52
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Ray after 3 pages argueing with me n tryn 2 make me look a fool with changn my wordz around Ur last 10 wordz sumz it up., And thatz all iv said threw out tha topic.. I never said wheelerz wernt top racers..there broodz aint 1st class,.i said its not a sireline.. Why do u thnk Cromlah bale went 2 china.??. Cheers wayne
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6225 Dogs 8 / Races 5 12 Aug 2010 23:03
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Oh no, why did I do it, I should have known better. (#@*&$*#)
Tom Flanagan Australia (Verified User) Posts 7250 Dogs 974 / Races 1022 12 Aug 2010 23:09
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"Not a sireline" may be what describes the results of that damline over the last 20 years or so. But it hasn't always been that way and there's no reason it can't produce quality sires again. Maybe it needs close breeding to become a sustained sireline again (tho that wasn't always the case with successful sires in the past from that line).
Sean Bannerman (Verified User) Posts 2 Dogs 54 / Races 0 12 Aug 2010 23:34
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Dyna Lachlan was trained by the Dailly's not G Bate
you can only judge a dog by how he raced and DL record speaks for himself
Jeff Holland Australia (Verified User) Posts 4831 Dogs 145 / Races 12 13 Aug 2010 00:33
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Tom Flanagan wrote:
"Not a sireline" may be what describes the results of that damline over the last 20 years or so. But it hasn't always been that way and there's no reason it can't produce quality sires again. Maybe it needs close breeding to become a sustained sireline again (tho that wasn't always the case with successful sires in the past from that line).
Tom, cant say I understand the theory, except that nearly all the dogs i've seen it applied to had other reasons for being failures.
My damline is incapable of producing a great sire, i'm told, but I cant see why it can be when your taking in new gene's with every new sire you add to the line.
But its things like this that make breeding debates interesting.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 13 Aug 2010 03:18
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Tom Flanagan wrote:
"Not a sireline" may be what describes the results of that damline over the last 20 years or so. But it hasn't always been that way and there's no reason it can't produce quality sires again. Maybe it needs close breeding to become a sustained sireline again (tho that wasn't always the case with successful sires in the past from that line).
Hey Tom is,nt that great to see all those top sires and none inbred says a lot hey
Barry Parker Australia (Verified User) Posts 145 Dogs 1 / Races 0 13 Aug 2010 03:32
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daily/bate whats the difference
William George Harrow Australia (Verified User) Posts 76 Dogs 0 / Races 0 13 Aug 2010 08:23
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Thanks Ray, a few friends and I have bought one of the bitches from the Iza Tora litter. She is currently being reared at Singleton and will go down to Victoria some time after Christmas.
Just a bit of trivia, but Bushy goes way back to Gails Beauty, one of the Wheeler foundation bitches.
Cheers Bill.
Dean Matterson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1474 Dogs 11 / Races 11 13 Aug 2010 11:04
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The Oddnik branch of the damline was pretty good too.
Odious, Silvertail Miss, Ultra Sence, General Jeff, Warrens Flyer, Dynamite Lad, Proper Tears etc.
Has Bush Legend served any "Bale" bitches?
William George Harrow Australia (Verified User) Posts 76 Dogs 0 / Races 0 14 Aug 2010 06:12
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
