And a lot of time(years) Scott.You are lucky as you have youth on your side and maybe one day you may prove what you say. Keep at it ,you never know. This also will be a huge investment and unless you rear yourself it will cost a great deal of money to prove yourself right.

In the early days there was a lot of hit and miss because of inexperience and no data available such as the internet and very valuable input from people like Peter Rose.

I'm now firmly convinced that a proven sire is the first requirment, equally or more important is a quality dam who also has a proven damline, no guarantees but your chances are greatly improved with this formula.
Personally i favour line breeding 3 x 4 or 4 x 4, in paticular if the " old breeders axiom" of returning to the sire the best blood of his dam in the above configuration.

Good luck to all who venture into breeding, sometimes its a very hard road to hoe, but the rewards can not be measured in monetary figures.

Cheers.

Pleased to read your post quoting ;

'In the future you will find people using Cosmic Rumble over a Collision bitch which should produce some top racers of the futute.'

Ive just put a collision bitch Fridge Wilson to Cosmic Rumble.

Fridge has thrown wenty park winners in previous litter to Bit Chili who are still racing so i was pleased to get a push from you.

thanks
paul

Good luck Paul. It looks good on paper. Only time will tell.
CLICK HERE

https:/ CLICK HERE

The late P.Wheeler(G.R.H.S.) magic breeding at its best.

Its all about strength and breeding to strength

Everywhere you look in that pedigree, thats what you see

Thats the magic PAW creates with his breeding lines

Agree to disagree

https:/ CLICK HERE

The mother is from a group of litters you wouldnt even sneeze at ? Which were strength on top off strength ! Fair to say it would have sent the average breeder broke , before they then went to the fastest sprint dog ever ( Fernando) for it to turn profitable ? Yes Fernando can produce strength runners , but theres not one racing trait about Fernando that would have implied strength in 2014 when Sammy was conceived? As apposed to Tarunza bale /Yahoo Omar ?

Please ! Its called a fast dog to a great damline and luck and persistent money

This line breeding between Allen deed over Fernando offspring will be seen again and again ! Well done , this breeding is gold !

Top combinations from all ends of the world marrying perfectly

Jarvis Bale & Chloe Allen are half brother/sister

One by Sonic Flight & one by Primo Uno

Both sires known to throw their fair share of stayers

Jarvis Bale , a top class stayer

Chloe Allen PM $57,000 good 500m bitch and placed over 600m in city

Fernando's littermates Elfen, Gazer - both 600m city winners

Ikaku & Linco both 700m city winners

Seems to be a reasonable amount of stamina in all partsd of the line

Its what the Wheeler family breeds for , they are far from average breeders

Anyway, no drama, you see what you want to see, I will see what I want to see

Sammy Allen - https:/ CLICK HERE

They were horrible and would have sent 90 % of breeders broke

Im guessing as he looked at them in the paddocks being legless , lazy and other traits that come with stayers he thought I have the fastest dog in my kennels , use him !

Its one thing to say breed strength to strength but there is a glaringly obvious result that there are no stayers in the top 20 sires for years on end for a reason.

The only litter that sparked the damline was to the fastest sprint dog going !
Which is why everyone used him when he became available !

You can look at 3-6 generations back and pick a stayers patch in most breeds , my point is it wont be through the sire line and or the reason a breeder selects a stud .
Proof ? Sammy Allens previous litters before her are the likely outcome

He used the fastest sprint dog available after a more then one failed attempt at direct strength from a sire line .

Imop people get this strength into strength fairytale wrong , its about using a speed dog that has the ability to throw back threw other previous generations to strength patches in its pedigree ! Hence why u need luck and sometimes you get it and sometimes you dont !

If it was a direct sire input that was the outcome all studs would be delivering higher then the average 10% top offspring to make it

Each to their own I agree , but I wouldnt overlook the larger portion of failures to celebrate the minute portion that succeeds and label it one thing ? Strength

Its many

I agree with you to the extent that you need to have dogs with high acceleration to keep the speed & chase in the lines

However, judiciously breeding to increase the stamina genes in a line is what eventually will produce more stayers or probably to be more correct, more 500m+ dogs in your lines

I am no expert but I just think you need to have balalnce in your lines and then you can choose to tip it with more speed or with more stamina

As an average breeder, I just try to get city class 500m greyhounds that may go onto 600m and with a wing a prayer to 700m

The European thoroughbred breeders have been doing this for 100's of years, they will refresh a damline that has become too dour with a speed sire. But they also breed for the generational long term which is not what the average greyhound breeder does

Nearly every stud dog is a sprinter because it seems breeders are fearful that breeding to a stayer will diminish hard chase and the all important speed to the first turn

Thats not going to change any time soon

Awesome Assassin won over 700, Sonic Flight is a renowned source of strength. One things for sure, you would think you were a chance of breeding a strong 500+ dog with Yachi Bales pedigree.

True

But more importantly there is some magical line breeding thats igniting the strength you see everywhere .

I looked closer at the family previous to last nights runner to confirm this and see whats goin on , I find it interesting and like to learn

So I looked into the mother Sammy Allen , shes from a handy litter ! x Fernando bale

He also used previously tarunza bale who is regarded as a run home strong dog and threw accordingly , strong types and stayers , you could count on 3 fingers the races he lead from the boxes ! Not your lid pinging sprint type at all .
And same goes for the US flop yahoo ! Saying coincidentally they are sprint dogs doesnt hide the fact that everyone knows he was regarded as being strong and throwing strong

Im pretty sure wheeler knew these traits / breeding etc and went for the direct sire strength input and so did everyone else using and wanting a Turanza bale straw .

Both litters were horrible

Again ..! after seeing these pups in the paddocks failing to chase his quad bike at a measly 30 klm an hour instead of 70 klm , and was shattered ! Whilst at the same time having the fastest lid pinging 500 mtr dog ever seen in the world in his kennel , Im pretty sure he didnt say before we go to Fernando , WAIT ! I have to pedigree check this to see if it matches for strength AGAIN ..and has a chance of producing a runner over 600 mtr ?

He went for speed , consistency and let the damline do the strength work !
The opposite in the first two litters !

Hence a stud dog with speed that has a deep strong damline will have more chance tenfold in comparison to a stud that was perceived as being strong through his running is my point !

Hence what u get in a litter with this in mind and what wheeler opted for after strength orientated litters for nothing ! He had no clue the outcome of Fernandos sire ability at that time and its that mating that gave way to last nights success .

Thats all Im guessing and evaluating from past matings in this line . Now they are line breeding to both strength and speed as the sires around at present are a gift to utilise with the blood relations around

The pure speed mating bought Sammy Allen about , not strength chasing like he did in previous litters

Im probably wrong but , just my thoughts

Ps Darren Jarvis bale was useless as sire , please , for reasons Ive said in strength sires a hundred times
You could pick one up for free and buck the 4% trend he has cranking

Of course its magical line breeding. Paul Wheeler had already bred the likes of Jax Bale and Qwara Bale with the mix. So, no surprise to see him try it again with Allen Deed and get another one in Yachi Bale. Even with the little extra line breeding. Stand to be corrected, but think another breeder(s) had already shown the quality of the mix? So, Paul Wheeler wasnt the first one to mix the combination of Elusive Rebel and Gold Rush Bale together. But, astute to try it himself.

Correction - looks like Shima Shine Nov 17 & Jax Bale Jan 18, the first. Could only find Ritza Lenny & Jaimandy Hatty, both with the close Hallucinate / Wheres Pedro cross. And Paul Wheeler bred David Bale on the earlier dam line cross.

Shame the facts and stats show the opposite including sectionals !

More fairytales