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Charlie O Reilly Ireland (Verified User) Posts 12 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 19:28
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wait to next year to see the influence ballymac maeve will make to the coursing scene.
Mary Crotty Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1116 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 19:39
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i tried it years ago coursing bitch, track dog,qualified to race only changed their minds after a couple of trials and never followed lure again ,i was lucky she only had 2 .
John Cushe Ireland (Verified User) Posts 84 Dogs 12 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 19:42
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Crossing a Coursing bitch and a track dog, gives you straight back pace CLICK HERE this dog is a fine example of this. also from a very strong coursing bred line CLICK HERE this bitch is a fine example of what you would get when you cross a coursing bitch with a track dog CLICK HERE I've done it the other way around my self to produce a brood from early pace dam lines by a coursing stud dog with the purpose to keep a bitch from both lines to be mated back to a track dog CLICK HERE the likes of Matt o Donnell and berth Hatten and jack Mullen have done this with big success, so its nothing new if you check out back breeding. take a look at distant fields as example that ran both track and field as a full coursing bred an had no problem with his size, don't forget all track dogs generated from coursing lines Tivoli Chief.
I have a dog and bitch from this litter, triple track record breaking sprinter and a litter sister to coursing stud dog Johnny Casanova.... will they stay.... do they even have to??? CLICK HERE Fine tanks of pups!
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 757 Dogs 3 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 21:45
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john cushe wrote:
Crossing a Coursing bitch and a track dog, gives you straight back pace CLICK HERE this dog is a fine example of this. also from a very strong coursing bred line CLICK HERE this bitch is a fine example of what you would get when you cross a coursing bitch with a track dog CLICK HERE I've done it the other way around my self to produce a brood from early pace dam lines by a coursing stud dog with the purpose to keep a bitch from both lines to be mated back to a track dog CLICK HERE the likes of Matt o Donnell and berth Hatten and jack Mullen have done this with big success, so its nothing new if you check out back breeding. take a look at distant fields as example that ran both track and field as a full coursing bred an had no problem with his size, don't forget all track dogs generated from coursing lines Tivoli Chief.
John Jack Mullan must be deceased for 20 years Matt is still with us dont know about the other person as i said the dogs then were genuine dual purpose dogs it is the modern coursing dog that does not in 99 percent of cases that does not cross with track in mind Mary is a typical example
Lee Anthony Unsworth United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 332 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 21:47
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Get the right size Coursing bitch ( not overley large ) with Great bloodlines and take her to The Right track Sire and you could hit the jackpot. If not in the resulting litter the bitches IMO would have the potential to breed on well ?
Anna Cook United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 52 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 21:53
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You could check out my dog Class Eagle's, (now retired).. someone on here told me that her mother was coursing while dad is track. Also check out her brothers record- Compass Jake.
Lar Sutton Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2109 Dogs 24 / Races 64 28 Nov 2011 22:08
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thomas bambury wrote:
john cushe wrote:
Crossing a Coursing bitch and a track dog, gives you straight back pace CLICK HERE this dog is a fine example of this. also from a very strong coursing bred line CLICK HERE this bitch is a fine example of what you would get when you cross a coursing bitch with a track dog CLICK HERE I've done it the other way around my self to produce a brood from early pace dam lines by a coursing stud dog with the purpose to keep a bitch from both lines to be mated back to a track dog CLICK HERE the likes of Matt o Donnell and berth Hatten and jack Mullen have done this with big success, so its nothing new if you check out back breeding. take a look at distant fields as example that ran both track and field as a full coursing bred an had no problem with his size, don't forget all track dogs generated from coursing lines Tivoli Chief.
John Jack Mullan must be deceased for 20 years Matt is still with us dont know about the other person as i said the dogs then were genuine dual purpose dogs it is the modern coursing dog that does not in 99 percent of cases that does not cross with track in mind Mary is a typical example
Thomas, I'm shocked you never heard of Bertie Hatton, he is the man responsible for Shiela At Last, the dam of the great Monalee Champion, surely a dynasty in itself, you seem to dismiss the coursing lines and I simply cannot understand why, pure pace can never be traded in your quest to breed a champion, it may take a generation or two but the pace will come to the top.
John Cushe Ireland (Verified User) Posts 84 Dogs 12 / Races 0 28 Nov 2011 22:08
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we know the man is deceased we are just stating that the line he breed was so successful that we could do with another CLICK HERE , jack mullan started a new track line from a coursing dam line, he wasn't afraid to take the chance either was his friend berty hatton. "there's no use being a hurler on the ditch get in a breed one"
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 05:37
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CLICK HERE this bloke may help to tell the story ...one must never forget that ...tin hare racing evolved from the coursing greyhounds ..and many an old breeder would breed from good coursing dogs to put the chase back into his line/s...maybe this bloke would,ve come close in this day and age CLICK HERE also this guy made some impact used to the right tin hjare bitches CLICK HERE I,ve sat as a young bloke for many hours listening to the stories of the old Plumpton days ...
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 757 Dogs 3 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 06:25
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Lar i am only stating from experience that crossing the modern coursing dogs to track is invariably a disaster the biggest problem is size and general awkwardness in the crosses next is their unwillingness to chase the track lure for whatever reason most of those that do chase soon pack it in they are unsaleable at any stage anyone that i have seen try crossing them wont be doing so again
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 06:49
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Thomas what would be the reason why they are so big ...would it have to do with growth hormones ton get the muscle mass
Lar Sutton Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2109 Dogs 24 / Races 64 29 Nov 2011 07:30
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thomas bambury wrote:
Lar i am only stating from experience that crossing the modern coursing dogs to track is invariably a disaster the biggest problem is size and general awkwardness in the crosses next is their unwillingness to chase the track lure for whatever reason most of those that do chase soon pack it in they are unsaleable at any stage anyone that i have seen try crossing them wont be doing so again
Thomas, you missed my main point, and that was most true greyhound people would associate Bertie Hatton's name with the likes of Shiela At Last and Monalee Champion.
As regards your next point, about all coursing dogs are oversized for the track, a lot of modern day track dogs come close to 80lbs.
Your point to not chase the hare on the track, this is mostly due to the unwillingness of their connections to chase such a lure.
I have a bitch out of Ashmore Lady, well bred she weighted in at 86lbs approx, but I got the smallest bitch from her final litter by Nobooth For Gary, never weighted her but I reckon she is 60lbs at 13 months, she is for me an ideal brood bitch, and her daughters should even be better prospects.
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 757 Dogs 3 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 08:22
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Lar monalee champion was obviously one of the older dual type dogs that were commonly bred 20 years ago the original question was what to expect from a coursing track cross your bitch at 86 lbs is very big the dogs must have been over 100lbs you are going a diffrent road to the original questioner and are trying to inject coursing pace into future litters of trackers as for their unwillingness to chase and stay chasing there used to be a big competition at Tralee track confined to coursing bred dogs and it used to hold up the trials by hours with owners trying to get them to go around it was an education to see the antics of them most of them just didnt want to know the things that worked long ago no longer apply for reasons stated best of luck with your bitch
Were the dogs trialling for the coursing bred stake not reared and trained primarily as coursing dogs? These dogs would not have been schooled for the track and to expect any dog to go straight to a race track without proper education would be problematic, even with a track bred dog. The same as expecting a pup to know what to do when going out in the field with a lamp for the first time.
Were the dogs trialling for the coursing bred stake not reared and trained primarily as coursing dogs? These dogs would not have been schooled for the track and to expect any dog to go straight to a race track without proper education would be problematic, even with a track bred dog. The same as expecting a pup to know what to do when going out in the field with a lamp for the first time.
Thats correct....most Coursing dogs are schooled for the track after they have spent a season coursing.....not as young pups
Lar Sutton Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2109 Dogs 24 / Races 64 29 Nov 2011 09:18
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thomas bambury wrote:
Lar monalee champion was obviously one of the older dual type dogs that were commonly bred 20 years ago the original question was what to expect from a coursing track cross your bitch at 86 lbs is very big the dogs must have been over 100lbs you are going a diffrent road to the original questioner and are trying to inject coursing pace into future litters of trackers as for their unwillingness to chase and stay chasing there used to be a big competition at Tralee track confined to coursing bred dogs and it used to hold up the trials by hours with owners trying to get them to go around it was an education to see the antics of them most of them just didnt want to know the things that worked long ago no longer apply for reasons stated best of luck with your bitch
Thomas, you seem to miss the basics of this thread, a few points you should note-
1. You do not know who Bertie Hatton was; the man was a legend
2. I did not use Monalee Champion as an example- I was trying to explain to you who Bertie Hatton was.
3. I do not have any bitch that weights 86lbs, my bitch is 60lbs approx.
4.The dogs you see racing in the coursing stakes at Tralee are by recognised coursing sires, so your point has very little relevance to a coursing bitch mated to a track sire, nowhere in the thread did we advocate racing totally bred coursing dogs.
5. As regards your "education" as you put it, I think you may need an education into the back breeding of Irish lines.
6. You say I'm going down a different route than the original question in the thread, possibly you should read the thread again, I have a pup from the mating of a track dog to a well bred coursing bitch, it was what the thread is about, the only difference I'm 15 months down the road from Stuart's original question.
7. The coursing influence is coming more into play, and will come more common in the coming years, Fatboyz Nodrog is a fantastic example of the coursing influence.
Eddie Farrell Ireland (Verified User) Posts 680 Dogs 4 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 09:32
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lar look up hipower bernie similar to nodrog only back another generation
Jim Turner Ireland (Verified User) Posts 3981 Dogs 628 / Races 1434 29 Nov 2011 11:02
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There is one man on here with a mountain of knowledge in both these spheres as regards breeding, and although we sometimes do not see eye to eye, his views on this would make very good reading.
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 757 Dogs 3 / Races 0 29 Nov 2011 13:08
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Lar there have been greyhounds on this farm both track and coursing since the 1940s i never heard of Bertie Hatton he must be dead a very long time you stated that you had a sapling out of an 86 lb dam i am not out to argue with you but have seen a lot of these crosses mostly from coursing bitches that broke down at the wrong time and can honestly say not one of them were any use now the bitches from these matings crossed again to track dogs may breed something useful but try selling their pups and most buyers will have nothing to do with them there are exceptions to every rule but if you breed these type of dogs realise that they cannot be sold
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
