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Do you have questions regarding the health of your greyhound? Do you need tips what you should feed your dog?
Or do you need advice in curing an injury?

cramping and high pcv levelspage  1 2 

Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 09:20


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anyone help me. i've a dog who cramps bad after 300yd.
blood profile results revealed that his pcv levels were high(66)
also his haemoglob was elevated at 23.3
this i think would suggest he's dehydrated even though his coat
shows no sign of dryness.
i followed this up with treatment of (replenolyte never helped amp5 never helped lectade never helped and finally vytrate never helped) i also use beta k and that never helped either.
he receives calcium and white-e-.
i've had the dog for almost a year now
with various treatments been unsuccessful.
he's had numerous trials gallops and races
and cramped everytime.
i'm running out of options now
any advice?


John O Sullivan
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 4658
Dogs 55 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 09:23


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whats is his diet?


Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 09:28


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his diet is a combination of
raw beef 660g rice or pasta and veg.
i dont use dry food
prefer to use natural food


John O Sullivan
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 4658
Dogs 55 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 09:47


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get rid of the raw beef and and substitute with chicken for a few weeks and add some tomatoes and bananas to his feed
see how that goes



Mark Glennerster
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 3208
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 11:25


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Dehydration can also be caused by low grade infection, you have given some of his red cell levels what is his white cell count and white cell differentials?

As John suggests reduce the raw protein levels a bit and feed chicken or fish instead. I do not see the need for two types of complex carbohydrates, use either rice or pasta, how much does the dog weigh?


Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 12:01


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his wbcc is 4.2
i dont use the two complex carbs together
and he weighs 36kg.



Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 12:17


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other readings were ALT 81, ALK PHOS 129, GAMMA GT 6,
TOTAL PROTEIN 60, ALBUMIN 38. POTASS 3.9.SODIUM 148, CALCIUM 2.5


Doug Riches
Canada
(Verified User)
Posts 118
Dogs 16 / Races 4

17 Oct 2010 12:57


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Gary,
I agree with Mark, there may be slight infection.
Try walking a brisk walk, followed up by about 10 to 12 mls of a pancake table syrup with as high of a carb reading as you can get. when you do this let the dog have water to drink but dont let the dog tank up.You can follow this up within a 1/2 hour after each work out or race,with around 6 mls of syrup, always be sure to have fresh water,but dont let it over drink.
You can grab a fist of hair,just above the shoulders to see how fast it rebounds back, to get a glimps if it is a bit dehydrated.
One thing that will help for cramping is get Sea Kelp in the diet a 1/4 to 1/2 a teaspoon every day in the food.
Kelp is loaded with Calcium and Iodine. Keep your dog on this for as long as you own it. The results will sell it's self.
The Iodine will help ward of infections, and will keep the thyroid in check also.


Mark Glennerster
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 3208
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 13:15


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Gary,

His sodium level is a bit high so maybe he is getting too much salt in some way, also his liver enzymes are up, ALT tops should be 80 so he is slightly high, albumin is high, so it could well be a liver problem and his calcium is also near the upper limits.

Do you add salt to the vegetables, rice or pasta water?

The liver has hell of a job with too much sodium, electrolytes
high in magnesium and pottassium salts are best.

I have found that dogs that cramp need plenty of work, more than average in other words, we used to gallop our crampy types everyday.


Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 13:36


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mark i dont add any extra salt
but i do think most electrolyte suplements that i've tried
contain too much salt and i'm thinking that could be part
of the problem.
the one i'm using just now is lectade.
do you know any electrolytes with high mag and potassium and
low sodium.


Mark Glennerster
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 3208
Dogs 0 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 14:08


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In the US we used to use E-lyte, it was a human product or blu-lyte which was for cattle, neither had any citrate in them, lectade does have citric acid in it.

Maybe E-ltye is avaiable over here or at least an equivilant.

Not doing any dogs at the moment so not in touch with suitable products for them.

We only gave electroltyes on a regular basis during long hot spells, at this time of year it was only as a pre or after performance drink. We only gave slow or beta K after a race as well. Too much electroltyes can effect heart rates.


Daryl Annells
Australia
(Needs Verification)
Posts 4706
Dogs 1 / Races 0

17 Oct 2010 18:28


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here's one for carole.
i know exactly what she would say, and very rarely is she wrong about this topic.
so hopefully she comes on board soon and gets in touch with you.
daz


Dean Perry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1048
Dogs 6 / Races 1

18 Oct 2010 06:24


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If you;re sodium is too high, your pottasium will be low. Consumption of too much sodium will cause pottasium loss. If you have an imbalance that can;t be corrected you would have to investigate whether or not the dog has a kidney problem.


Mark Glennerster
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 3208
Dogs 0 / Races 0

18 Oct 2010 07:10


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Dean is right, I was always given a figure of 145 for sodium and 4.5 for pottassium for optimum performance, your sodium is high and your pottassium is low.

It could well be that the dogs kidneys or liver are not functioning efficiently.
Dean Perry wrote:

If you;re sodium is too high, your pottasium will be low. Consumption of too much sodium will cause pottasium loss. If you have an imbalance that can;t be corrected you would have to investigate whether or not the dog has a kidney problem.




Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

18 Oct 2010 11:20


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if the kidneys or liver were not functioning or infected
then surely the wbcc would be a lot higher than 4.2.
the other readings were neutrophils 2.9, lymphocytes 1.1, monocyte 0.2 and eosinophil 0.0.
i'm not sure but i don't think these white cell counts are abnormal.




Mark Glennerster
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 3208
Dogs 0 / Races 0

18 Oct 2010 13:08


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White cell differentials are normally measured in percentages, the ratio is usually 66% neutrophils to 33% lymphocytes, I have not seen the white cells quoted in the way you show.

The liver can be out of wack without an elevated white cell count, for instance a fatty liver condition is not related to an infection, it just means its not functioning properly.

Have you had a new blood test done since you embarked on your treatment programme?


Daryl Annells
Australia
(Needs Verification)
Posts 4706
Dogs 1 / Races 0

18 Oct 2010 17:43


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and there lyes another story mark.
it's been known that some tests have been 'contaminated'and a unusual reading given...based mainly on the time its taken for a blood drawn through to it being tested, and even how long it took to transport the blood and how it was carried.

but in this case that is highly unlikely because the rest of the results seem near fine.
i discussed this exact issue yesterday with an a very smart person who is more than adequate in determining the results and problems and he had no hesitation in detecting DEHYDRATION.

it was pointed out that a simple drive to the vet and then the readings taken can show signs of dehydration if the dog i s a poor traveller, or got excited by seeing other dogs or cats etc; so timing is also of the importance.

and some trainers time it so badly they run a dog on the day or a day or two before the test is taken and then expect the result to be accurate.

blood tests done correctly are the windows to illnesses that can be picked up before they get to dangerous levels, but do it wrong for whatever reason and you have a poor result creating this situation.

in this case i believe the dog is dehydrated...for whatever reason only the trainer knows.
it can also be the type of flushes and electrolytes he is giving etc; and the amounts and timings.
when readings like this are so high the oxygen just cannot pump quickly enough through the system(sort of like treacle instead of blood)and a new tact needs to be taken to rectify...its not in the dangerous levels and just simple rebalancing of foods and liquid intakes is all that is needed.

daz

ps....mark here in ausytralia, our vets recommend the range of 3.5 to 4.2 in wcc is perfect, with the lower end indicating the fitness of the dog...so this guy is near the better end...has to be dehydration and something he using that is causing the problem.


Gary Carmichael
United Kingdom

Posts 15
Dogs 0 / Races 0

19 Oct 2010 01:16


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going by the readings i believe the dog
is dehydrated too.
but what does baffle me is apart from the readings
he shows no signs of suffering from dehydration.
his coat is shining he maintains weight.
the pinch test shows he's in perfect health
his meals are well watered he receives plenty fat in his
diet.
so really there should be no reason for him to have dehydration.
Daryl you said rebalancing of foods and liquid is all that is needed
how would you do this?


Daryl Annells
Australia
(Needs Verification)
Posts 4706
Dogs 1 / Races 0

19 Oct 2010 03:01


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gary,
dehydration comes in in the racing greyhound in a few forms, or categories.
my understanding the two are;
water being absent
and water being constantly there.

water being absent is easily remedied....give the supply of water.
water being there and drunk copiously would indicate a more challenging problem to rectify and may/could have a number of causes as the main problem;
stress,infection,anemia,and you guys being in a colder
climate, weather.

i found an interesting article based exactly on these conditions, and went on furthermore in breaking down the possibilities in which dehydration may/can occur.

HORMONAL INBALANCE
DIETARY
DISEASE PROBLEMS

firstly, i suggest you need a urine test done at the right time to see whether its a acidic stage or dehydrated stage....plus a new blood test (when was the other test done?)

they all blend in together....so before you can be sure of what really is wrong with the dog, a urine(with a specific gravity result in it) and a blood test need to be done.

the timing is important as well and try not have the dog over excited...otherwise the result can be inaccurate.

if possible, i would leave the dog overnight with the vet, and the following morning have them do the tests...its about the only way to eliminate outside influences.

give the vet a honest and i mean honest menu breakdown of what you are feeding the dog, what additives in particular kidney and electrolyte additives, any drugs and vitamins being administered, and obviously past history of medical problems.

its near impossible from afar to determine an exact problem without all info at hand.
try this for the sake of an updated result, then treat the dog accordingly.

and MAKE SURE ITS A GREYHOUND VET treating the dog.
the urine test must have that specific gravity result and demand it.

good luck

daz


Carole Brown
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 32355
Dogs 185 / Races 2

19 Oct 2010 07:33


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Gary, what do you feed him for breakfast ? It is pretty obvious that his readings are of a dog with dehydration. Have you checked his tonsils thoroughly ? The cramping could also be caused by anaemia, as you cannot tell from his present readings what his PCV and haemoglobin levels normally are. When did you give him the electrolytes and beta k, and how often ? Can you also say what other supplements you are using at present ? A trainer I spoke to recently had a similar problem with the PCV and HB readings with her dog. I suggested a couple of changes, which she made, and the dog, who had poor form previously, came out and won in the best of the day at Sandown Park. Also, pasta can make some dogs cramp.

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