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Jason Mernor Ireland (Verified User) Posts 760 Dogs 6 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 12:12
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just wondering peoples thoughs on swimmming greyhounds, how often would you swim a week and if you had a dog racing on a sat when would you last swim? and how would you rate it as getting a dog race fit?
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 14:47
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Jason Mernor wrote:
just wondering peoples thoughs on swimmming greyhounds, how often would you swim a week and if you had a dog racing on a sat when would you last swim? and how would you rate it as getting a dog race fit?
U are opening a huge can of worms in regards 2 what each trainer thinks is the best prep when introducing a swimming program 2 a k9's prep m8 ! All I know its totally different 2 the way horse trainers use this training technique. A BIG NO COMMENT FROM ME on this subject Jason. I'll be very interested in the answers you will receive regarding this post m8.
Peter McGorrey Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1018 Dogs 10 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 17:14
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Swimming a waste of time Jason unless you have one injured hard to neat galloping
Jason Mernor Ireland (Verified User) Posts 760 Dogs 6 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 18:11
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Well
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 19:31
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If swimming was no good why do the elite Athletes especially the contact football sports have a swim session the day after a game I have swum all my life since I was 5 yrs old and it is great for the body when you have finished a hard game of Rugby league especially the next day and the colder the better.I remember when I hurt my back the 1st lot of rehab I had was in the pool just walking about and exercising in the water then it was on the kickboard backstroke and no freestyle then add the walking and even though everything is.nt 100% I still feel great...swimming is a great way of relaxing the muscles and so is walking combine the 2 and you have a plan
James Saunders Australia (Verified User) Posts 4644 Dogs 3 / Races 3 30 Oct 2014 19:58
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Bad backs and younger woman no sympathy here John.
Tom Welsh Australia (Verified User) Posts 2112 Dogs 67 / Races 11 30 Oct 2014 21:21
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My dogs swim of their own volition in the dam, so its completely natural for them (although some hate the water).
Not sure I'd use a hydropool etc, although a water walker could be useful to aid recovery if you had a dog and were trying to limit the weight it placed on its hocks / legs etc.
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 30 Oct 2014 21:25
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John McAlister wrote:
If swimming was no good why do the elite Athletes especially the contact football sports have a swim session the day after a game I have swum all my life since I was 5 yrs old and it is great for the body when you have finished a hard game of Rugby league especially the next day and the colder the better.I remember when I hurt my back the 1st lot of rehab I had was in the pool just walking about and exercising in the water then it was on the kickboard backstroke and no freestyle then add the walking and even though everything is.nt 100% I still feel great...swimming is a great way of relaxing the muscles and so is walking combine the 2 and you have a plan
K9's aren't footy players John ! They r the equivalant 2 a 100mt Olympic sprinter. Don't see the flying Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt doing laps of the pool ! ha ha ha. I have been taught a coupla things in regards 2 swimming k9's. 1stly a k9 uses different muscles when swimming compared to galloping so if ya put a k9 on a swimming program ya got to keep it on a swimming program 4 a while ya just can't chop & change between the pair fron week 2 week. ok 2 walk them shin deep in salt water after a tough race but usually only keep them on a swimming program if k9 has sustained toe injuries etc etc when ya can't gallop em & ya want to retain a bit of fitness in em. 3 minutes 2-3 times a wk enough 2 just keep em ticking over when unable to gallop em. Not a fan of swimming k9's but the occasional walk in shin deep salt water once a week ok. this is just my own opinion. each to their own I say. John.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 00:14
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Well Steve I wouldn't mind seeing Bolte's workout program I would say there would be a dip in the pool there somewhere even if it were for a session of relaxation I am a great believer in any form of exercise is good as long as it creates no injuries to the participant.I had a dog not all that long ago that I use to take down to the Pontoon at Speers Point I would tie a 20 foot length of rope to his collar throw his empty coke bottle in and he would jump in have the bottle between his teeth and the use every inch of that rope to get back to shore then he would run back out on the Pontoon I would take the bottle and he was ready to go again his name was On A Shake or Yogi and he loved that play time and so did his sisters.You know I don't drink much but I wouldn't say it would do me no good if I had a few because I know it's nice to change the system actually I am thinking of taking 2 down to the lake very shortly I may do it tomorrow after I slip them up the straight
Darren Langley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3160 Dogs 12 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 00:21
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steve harvey wrote:
Jason Mernor wrote:
just wondering peoples thoughs on swimmming greyhounds, how often would you swim a week and if you had a dog racing on a sat when would you last swim? and how would you rate it as getting a dog race fit?
U are opening a huge can of worms in regards 2 what each trainer thinks is the best prep when introducing a swimming program 2 a k9's prep m8 ! All I know its totally different 2 the way horse trainers use this training technique. A BIG NO COMMENT FROM ME on this subject Jason. I'll be very interested in the answers you will receive regarding this post m8.
I maybe wrong but doesn't the trainer of Flying Amy use the pool a fair bit??
I wouldn't have thought it did her any harm......
Jason Mernor Ireland (Verified User) Posts 760 Dogs 6 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 00:28
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Thanks for advise, gallop is waterlogged at the min and 1 in training for ted hearty in few weeks so gonna swim now twice a week, never tried it as I have no pool but it's meant to be top job, taking two 15 month old dogs aswel, may do them all Lol
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 00:41
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John McAlister wrote:
Well Steve I wouldn't mind seeing Bolte's workout program I would say there would be a dip in the pool there somewhere even if it were for a session of relaxation I am a great believer in any form of exercise is good as long as it creates no injuries to the participant.I had a dog not all that long ago that I use to take down to the Pontoon at Speers Point I would tie a 20 foot length of rope to his collar throw his empty coke bottle in and he would jump in have the bottle between his teeth and the use every inch of that rope to get back to shore then he would run back out on the Pontoon I would take the bottle and he was ready to go again his name was On A Shake or Yogi and he loved that play time and so did his sisters.You know I don't drink much but I wouldn't say it would do me no good if I had a few because I know it's nice to change the system actually I am thinking of taking 2 down to the lake very shortly I may do it tomorrow after I slip them up the straight
ha ha ha. you r a riot sosso ! I agree mixing up a k9's work is the best way 2 keep em keen & alert + help prevent em from "browning off" cos of the same old drill day after day. Whenever my k9's require trials in their preps I always trial them at a different track each time. I rarely trial at the same track twice in a row I've found it keeps em a lot more interested. I usually free gallop most mornings around 15mins or I may slip em 300mts or do a short little bit of roadwork. It all depends on what it requires at that point in time. I think the best advice I have ever been given is 2 know ya animal thoroughly & have it worked out b4 it works you out cos if that happens the k9 has got it all over ya ! As they say ; variety is definitely the spice of life & that includes k9's as well. that's why most k9's "brown off" due to lack of variety in their work as well as their diet but still keep em at the same time routine everyday as k9's love that & r better than any alarm clock. if ya just 2 mins late they soon let ya know all about it ! a trick I use just 2 change the taste of their meals is 2 buy cheap tinned soup in all different flavours & just give em a different flavour everyday. this black bitch has a palate 4 pea & ham , she loves it gulps down her meals like a pig ! that easy trick works everytime I get a picky type.
Brenton Wilson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1567 Dogs 10 / Races 38 31 Oct 2014 01:56
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John McAlister wrote:
Well Steve I wouldn't mind seeing Bolte's workout program I would say there would be a dip in the pool there somewhere even if it were for a session of relaxation I am a great believer in any form of exercise is good as long as it creates no injuries to the participant.I had a dog not all that long ago that I use to take down to the Pontoon at Speers Point I would tie a 20 foot length of rope to his collar throw his empty coke bottle in and he would jump in have the bottle between his teeth and the use every inch of that rope to get back to shore then he would run back out on the Pontoon I would take the bottle and he was ready to go again his name was On A Shake or Yogi and he loved that play time and so did his sisters.You know I don't drink much but I wouldn't say it would do me no good if I had a few because I know it's nice to change the system actually I am thinking of taking 2 down to the lake very shortly I may do it tomorrow after I slip them up the straight
John, as a sprints coach myself the only way Bolt would go near a pool would be for recuperation, he may do some form of sprinting drills in the pool if injured. But straight out swimming he would not do as it is an aerobic exercise, and he is focussed on anaerobic/alyctic training. Sprints reps up to 300m, plyometrics, weights...
I coach 800-1500m athletes as well and with the teenagers trying to get miles in their legs, I do encourage them to have a swimming session or bike session, to change it up it every couple of weeks, as both are aerobic based sports, so helps with minimising overtraining. But I would rather them be putting the miles in the track.
For example. I had a 16 yr old boy come to train with me with a background in Triathlon, he couldn't break 2.00min for the 800m on the track. For the next 12 months he was solely focussed on running, no swimming, or bicycle, except every 8 weeks which was a recuperation week, and he could change a light run for either swimming or bike. He PB'd at Nationals at the end of the year and ran 1.53.40
The way the muscle is used in swimming as nothing at all in common with sprinting/running, and only has some assistance with aerobic based activity, which is long and slow.
Swimming is a weightless environment that's why it is good as a recovery exercise, it takes the pressure of the joints and muscles and assists with movement, exactly what you need after a football game. PS the cold water also assists with moving the blood around and removing lactic acid from the muscles.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 02:14
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I hope your not running them up sand hills Brenton just joking I have very little knowledge of athletes even though Glenn Carrol was my rehab trainer for 12 months or so he was the Australian long jump champion at the time missed out on the Olympics then went to the Winter games on the 4 man bobsled? I don't see a problem with dogs having a dip on hot days or if they have an Injury I know it doesn't get the fitness up they may need but to say it's not good well to me is ridiculous.It is the same with many things to do with greyhounds from feeding to keeping them fit if a trainer thinks they need something different do it you never know it may work then again it may be like what I struck I trialled 2 dogs both solo both went awful both had always trialled 2 out since their early education so they never got the hit out I wanted them to have back to the drawing board ...how many times have you been there Brenton at the drawing board
Brenton Wilson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1567 Dogs 10 / Races 38 31 Oct 2014 02:50
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John McAlister wrote:
I hope your not running them up sand hills Brenton just joking I have very little knowledge of athletes even though Glenn Carrol was my rehab trainer for 12 months or so he was the Australian long jump champion at the time missed out on the Olympics then went to the Winter games on the 4 man bobsled? I don't see a problem with dogs having a dip on hot days or if they have an Injury I know it doesn't get the fitness up they may need but to say it's not good well to me is ridiculous.It is the same with many things to do with greyhounds from feeding to keeping them fit if a trainer thinks they need something different do it you never know it may work then again it may be like what I struck I trialled 2 dogs both solo both went awful both had always trialled 2 out since their early education so they never got the hit out I wanted them to have back to the drawing board ...how many times have you been there Brenton at the drawing board
Mate, far too many times, but my athletics coaching has taught me to try and identify what doesn't work and remove it. Like anything I wish what I know now I knew 5 years ago!
We actually have a dog rehab centre up here in Brisbane, they get a lot of sporting dogs, not a lot of greyhounds, I know there's a big one in Melbourne. When we get an injury we take them to compensate for the loss of training. When we first went there the owner had us put the dogs in a pool so they could swim around, and then on the water walker. We found that they were picking up niggling injuries through the pool swim, so we stopped doing it and kept to the water walker which is fabulous.
It allows the dog to exercise but have the support of the water, it has variable speed and is a good workout for the dog. The owner can spot the problem by watching the dog in the water, so she can adjust the speed to compensate. We find it gets the dogs back on the track quicker and we've never had a repeat of the same injury.
A vet up here said to me that the issue with swimming is when the dogs kick out there back legs, they aren't recruiting/activating the other support muscles as they would when they are running. Therefore you are isolating the prime mover muscles and because its a weightless environment outside their normal range of motion, as when they are running, it can create minor strains and tears.
If its something you did from when they were young and was continual then you would get over these issues, but I suggest problems would occur if you were doing it for something different or infrequent. JMO.
Don't get me wrong, our latest pups had a dam, they would run around, jump in the dam, cool down and run again, its a great environment for them. I'm just not confident its a great training tool being in the pool.
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 08:28
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Brenton Wilson wrote:
John McAlister wrote:
I hope your not running them up sand hills Brenton just joking I have very little knowledge of athletes even though Glenn Carrol was my rehab trainer for 12 months or so he was the Australian long jump champion at the time missed out on the Olympics then went to the Winter games on the 4 man bobsled? I don't see a problem with dogs having a dip on hot days or if they have an Injury I know it doesn't get the fitness up they may need but to say it's not good well to me is ridiculous.It is the same with many things to do with greyhounds from feeding to keeping them fit if a trainer thinks they need something different do it you never know it may work then again it may be like what I struck I trialled 2 dogs both solo both went awful both had always trialled 2 out since their early education so they never got the hit out I wanted them to have back to the drawing board ...how many times have you been there Brenton at the drawing board
Mate, far too many times, but my athletics coaching has taught me to try and identify what doesn't work and remove it. Like anything I wish what I know now I knew 5 years ago!
We actually have a dog rehab centre up here in Brisbane, they get a lot of sporting dogs, not a lot of greyhounds, I know there's a big one in Melbourne. When we get an injury we take them to compensate for the loss of training. When we first went there the owner had us put the dogs in a pool so they could swim around, and then on the water walker. We found that they were picking up niggling injuries through the pool swim, so we stopped doing it and kept to the water walker which is fabulous.
It allows the dog to exercise but have the support of the water, it has variable speed and is a good workout for the dog. The owner can spot the problem by watching the dog in the water, so she can adjust the speed to compensate. We find it gets the dogs back on the track quicker and we've never had a repeat of the same injury.
A vet up here said to me that the issue with swimming is when the dogs kick out there back legs, they aren't recruiting/activating the other support muscles as they would when they are running. Therefore you are isolating the prime mover muscles and because its a weightless environment outside their normal range of motion, as when they are running, it can create minor strains and tears.
If its something you did from when they were young and was continual then you would get over these issues, but I suggest problems would occur if you were doing it for something different or infrequent. JMO.
Don't get me wrong, our latest pups had a dam, they would run around, jump in the dam, cool down and run again, its a great environment for them. I'm just not confident its a great training tool being in the pool.
AH ! Somebody actually agrees with my methods. K9's use different muscles when swimming compared 2 running. Bad idea 2 chop & change between the pair on a regular basis. Swimming also tightens em right up compared 2 just a solid 300mt blow out.
Michael Barry Australia (Verified User) Posts 7403 Dogs 26 / Races 9 31 Oct 2014 08:41
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do you have some problem with using the word DOG
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 09:21
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michael barry wrote:
do you have some problem with using the word DOG
NO but I'll keep saying k9 cos it irks you ! Don't give me an English lesson bud ok.
James Saunders Australia (Verified User) Posts 4644 Dogs 3 / Races 3 31 Oct 2014 19:03
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Barry is irish how is he going to give you an english lesson.
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 31 Oct 2014 19:22
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james saunders wrote:
Barry is irish how is he going to give you an english lesson.
HA HA HA. He shouldn't critise the way people talk or abrievate words. dogs r k9's ! I use the word k9 as it can apply 4 either sex. He just jumped out of a tree & posted what he thought was a rather smirk comment in my direction. not that I care cos his opinion wasn't worth the time 2 post it. got nothing else better 2 do I guess. sad !
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