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Chris Robertson Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1043 Dogs 28 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 00:13
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Brian Loughnane wrote:
I know of a 74 year old man who had a dog test positive for pentobarbital the same man wouldn't even know what b12 is relys on his wife to bring him to the track as he can barely walk...you tell me this man is a drug cheat...its a fact this can be traced trough meat (NOT AN EXCUSE BUT A FACT) yer pointing the finger again with out taking into account that the meat 90% of us are using is from a knackery which a small percentage of is but to sleep via pentobarbital their for a small percentage of dogs is gonna test positive...
You haven't answered my previous reply, so tell me this. Is a trainer with a positive for Stanozolol a severe reprimand & a fine, to use your words "a drug cheat"?
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 16 Dec 2017 00:30
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There are approx 5,000 greyhounds run every week in the uk, how many test positive for a banned substance... You asked the question mark so please inlighten me how many test positive...if you don't know don't ask...so what your saying is its ok as long as it's not a group 1 race or as long as it's in Ireland...and is that rule in your opinion only apply to professional trainer as that's what you say in your post so what if a let's say so called small guy test positive in a A10 does he have to be 100% certain where his meat has come from should he may be send it away to be tested before he feeds it... If the group 1 trainer is expected to do so then surely the same rule applies to the A10 trainer... Pentobarbital isn't a drive yes it's on the UKs banned list unfortunately it does often end up in a dogs system it's a case of how you choose to believe it got their was it given trough means of a fraudulent act or trough food contamination...i don't see its benefits to a race dog its used to put animals to sleep and I would find it is probably next to impossible to get also why would anyone with half a brain cell use it when knowing 100% he will be tested...I believe this is a case of food contamination and I think it's a discrace that our own fellow doggie men will always nail you to the cross with out knowing any facts...ye all need to let the sport look after the sport and ye look after yer own business what ever it may be...
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6018 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 02:09
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Brian Loughnane wrote:
Please explain Terry what it does and how you know what it does...
Brian you seem the only one in Ireland believing all positives to Pentobarbital is from contaminated meat? Many of your contempories believe otherwise (Paul, Francis, Barry, Dave, Mark, Chris) Yes Brian trainers are gaining a HUGH advantage over others using Pentobarbital! Fact. Yes some Top trainers have been caught for this in Aust! Fact! How is the Loch Ness Monster, Tooth/Fairy, and Santa Claus going Brian? LoL
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6018 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 07:23
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Brian Loughnane wrote:
The only fact I'm seen here is little Terry can't explain what his raving about and that's a fact...Come on Terence tell us how it works how are all these trainers gaining huge advantages...
Sorry Brian, I don't work for Nothing! You pay the IGB for your licence and the New 400k Machine. Why don't you ask them the same question? Why Brian do they need a 400k machine? Golly every ones so honest.
I have been feeding knacker meat for the past 25 years my dogs get randomly tested and have never tested positive. Knacker meat is highly policed by the dept of agriculture they are at the yards every week testing the meat the meat has to be dated stamped, and no storage of meat allowed. I asked one of these vets when he came to inspect my kennels, his reply was for a dog to test positive a whole cow would have to be consumed and that is if it was in the meat in the first place. Cattle that have to be pts by a vet then have to be incinerated, plus paper work sent to the relevant department. He also stated that it is possibly it could be used as a blocker.
Mary Crotty Ireland (Verified User) Posts 1116 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 11:22
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Carole Shinkwin wrote:
I have been feeding knacker meat for the past 25 years my dogs get randomly tested and have never tested positive. Knacker meat is highly policed by the dept of agriculture they are at the yards every week testing the meat the meat has to be dated stamped, and no storage of meat allowed. I asked one of these vets when he came to inspect my kennels, his reply was for a dog to test positive a whole cow would have to be consumed and that is if it was in the meat in the first place. Cattle that have to be pts by a vet then have to be incinerated, plus paper work sent to the relevant department. He also stated that it is possibly it could be used as a blocker.
well that clears that up
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 16 Dec 2017 11:28
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mary crotty wrote:
Carole Shinkwin wrote:
I have been feeding knacker meat for the past 25 years my dogs get randomly tested and have never tested positive. Knacker meat is highly policed by the dept of agriculture they are at the yards every week testing the meat the meat has to be dated stamped, and no storage of meat allowed. I asked one of these vets when he came to inspect my kennels, his reply was for a dog to test positive a whole cow would have to be consumed and that is if it was in the meat in the first place. Cattle that have to be pts by a vet then have to be incinerated, plus paper work sent to the relevant department. He also stated that it is possibly it could be used as a blocker.
well that clears that up
Carole I bone beef at a knackery and all the vets test for is tb and bovine spongiform they do not test the animals for anything else so don't be talking smack in a earlier post I mentioned a 74 year in which I know tested positive for pentobarbital are you saying he fed a whole cow to his dog absolute rubbish this man hasn't a bulls notion about pentobarbital and Id find it hard to say he even knows what b12 is so is he also masking something is he again ye choose to believe what ye want with out any logic reasoning ye may not realise this but ye all may aswell join the antis cause ye are doing the exact same to our sport as they are and that is publish statements with out any real evidence and continue to spread bad publicity about our greyhound industry... And if it's used for what ye think its used for what has it masked nothing else showed up surly the machine in the UK would have picked up something... NO...
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 69 Dogs 1 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 12:17
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I find it amazing that anyone would feed knacker meat to any greyhounds whether racing or rearing first of all you have no guarantee as to what is in the bags a neighbor of mine lost two saplings and a brood bitch after being fed this kind of meat I am a dairy farmer and if we lose an odd animal to any one of several diseases or maybe an accident broken leg etc the procedure is that when the animal is first noticed sick the vet is immediately called and the animal is given whatever drugs are prescribed and this could go on for several days if the animal isn't improving by day two she gets even more powerful drugs of last resort if she dies it can take three to four days to have her taken away by which stage she is fairly ripe the diseases that I am referring to are gangrene mastitis salmonella ecoli mastitis and several more the animal is worth the bones of 2000 euros so every effort is made to keep her alive hence the repeated visits from the vet and the administering of ever more powerful drugs the a nimal dies and is processed for dog meat the carcase is stripped of all meat and bagged for sale to greyhound owners
the animal is not cured of what killed her say ecoli mastitis she is also after receiving several hundred ccs of powerful drugs if she was not collected quickly the meat had to be going off this is only some of the story how anyone would use this meat that could be contaminated with drugs or ecoli or god knows what else for any dogs not to mind top racing dogs to be fed on this stuff beggars belief
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 16 Dec 2017 13:02
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Tom on what your saying with all the several hundred ccs of drugs administrated to the poor animal it is highly likely that at some stage the dogs been fed it can or will test positive for some banned substances of some shape or form...
Well Brian you are the man with all the answers so I guess all of us must bow down to you. Not much point any of us going against your points of view as you appear to have tunnel vision. I am only going by what I was told also the guy who owns the knackers yard where I get my meat from, there are lot of us using it and we all get tested regularly, including a relative of his who races greyhounds. Keep it going Brian because it is you doing and Antis job for them not us.
Are you suggesting its not a problem to have a banned substance present !
Surely its irrelevant if it has an effect, if its banned its banned! End of story and the trainer should be held responsible. If a professional trainer cant control what ends up in their dogs then they shouldnt be licensed to operate.
Im fed up with excuses being given when drugs are found In samples and people come on making excuses, its those who continue to cheat or act irresponsibly who are destroying genuine owners/trainers confidence in the game.
Mark You are bang on the button. That and the Moaners that come on here trying to defend positive drug results is the reason why so many good greyhound people are leaving the sport. It is the same rules for all and if you are not prepared to follow the rules of racing you should not enter the race.
Joe Mc Gorrey United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 1292 Dogs 2 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 16:46
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Terry Jordan wrote:
Brian Loughnane wrote:
Please explain Terry what it does and how you know what it does...
Brian you seem the only one in Ireland believing all positives to Pentobarbital is from contaminated meat? Many of your contempories believe otherwise (Paul, Francis, Barry, Dave, Mark, Chris) Yes Brian trainers are gaining a HUGH advantage over others using Pentobarbital! Fact. Yes some Top trainers have been caught for this in Aust! Fact! How is the Loch Ness Monster, Tooth/Fairy, and Santa Claus going Brian? LoL
Well said terry there's boys like Brian on here that doesn't want to believe that there's cheats in greyhound racing I wonder why maybe he's trying to get a job in the igb lol
Brian Walsh (Verified User) Posts 104 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 17:26
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Here is link to IGB notice re Pentobarbital/Pentobarbitone. EXTERNAL LINK The IGB test for parent drug and metabolites but metabolites do not constitute an adverse analytical finding. Here is link to GBGB inquiry re Pentobarbital/Pentobarbitone positives where by they explain their change in findings. EXTERNAL LINK The GBGB test for parent drug and metabolites, however, they introduced a screening limit for the metabolites rather than a "no show". I have no link to or have not seen the paper describing the study mentioned in the GBGB document. Off the top of my head, the doses they used would be equivalent to 0.1ml euthasol; 0.3ml euthasol and 1ml euthosol (I could be wrong here!) I also noted that they mentioned how feeding of the recommended Category 3 meat still brought about positives. I see Brian and Terry are Gold Star members, maybe they could use their membership to "Ask The Vet" some questions re Pentobarbital food contamination, doses to euthanise a large animal, possible side effects of low dose administration to a average sized greyhound, etc, etc. We might get some facts, rather than the rumours which have been talked about. Does anyone have any links to actual scientific studies?? One more question to throw out there, if (I'm emphasising IF) low doses of Pentobarbital has some beneficial effect for the racing greyhound or can be used as a masking agent; where have all those who have tested positive been getting the Pentobarbital???? I'd imagine (again I could be totally wrong here) that it would be a lot easier to get hold of some benzos, Z-drugs, cocaine , amphetamine, Ritalin, Largactil, etc over some Pentobarbital ? I have my own opinions, but I'd change them in a second if people could show me real evidence.
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 16 Dec 2017 18:11
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Great Post Brian my argue is the trainer gets nailed to the cross before any explanation is given and the guys nailing him to the cross can't even tell me what pentobarbital does as a performance enhancer...I'm in no way for drugs in our sport I'm been real the chances of pentobarbital showing up in a dog trough food contamination way out weighs the other way the lads on here are suggesting... Theirs a couple of things also need to be addressed Ireland and England should be working under the same rule set in fact I actually think both industrys should join as one...guys ye all need to relax with yer bad press especially when ye actually don't know exactly what yer posting about its damaging and our sport does not need it equally as much as it doesn't need drugs...
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 69 Dogs 1 / Races 0 16 Dec 2017 19:06
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Brian Loughnane wrote:
Tom on what your saying with all the several hundred ccs of drugs administrated to the poor animal it is highly likely that at some stage the dogs been fed it can or will test positive for some banned substances of some shape or form...
brian what I am saying is nobody in their right mind would feed this stuff to a top class racing dog as it had to have come from animals that died of one disease or another it could kill the dog if the dog developed salmonella or ecoli the animal would get two bottles of 100 ccs each for three days and if no improvement would then be euthanized iam not saying anything for or against the dog in this case but am simply stating the reasons why knacker meat is not suitable any dogs and is definitely off the menue for top racing dogs
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 16 Dec 2017 21:39
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Tom I know exactly what your saying and that's why I'm thinking it's more likely a case of food contamination... Carole has used knacker meat for last 25 years and no problems but as Tom has outlined and it is out of experience the meat dogs can often get is contaminated... Now I know a positive is a positive but when their is a huge chance its by pure accident have a bit of decency and lay off the man...and let the sport deal with him...
Thomas Bambury Ireland (Verified User) Posts 69 Dogs 1 / Races 0 17 Dec 2017 08:53
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Brian Loughnane wrote:
Tom I know exactly what your saying and that's why I'm thinking it's more likely a case of food contamination... Carole has used knacker meat for last 25 years and no problems but as Tom has outlined and it is out of experience the meat dogs can often get is contaminated... Now I know a positive is a positive but when their is a huge chance its by pure accident have a bit of decency and lay off the man...and let the sport deal with him...
Brian the bottom line is how would any top trainer use this meat simply because you dont know its history a 2pound weight pack of shop mince is around 3 euros and they couldent get mixed up as the knacker mince is all blue dye to specify that it is not for human consumption
Brian Loughnane Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2514 Dogs 107 / Races 6 17 Dec 2017 18:12
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Tom I just left Lidl 500g of mince which equals 1.2 lbs is 3.59 so 3.59 per dog per day iv 60 dogs guess how much I'd be spending on meat a week 1500 and a year 78 thousand 500 euros...I to can't understand why anyone uses knacker meat...
Dr Karen Caldwell, Acting Manager of Veterinary Services of the Racing Science Centre, stated; anecdotally there have been reports of small amounts (Pentobarbitone) being used in racing greyhounds to provide a mild sedative effect so they are not running their race before they race.
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