home - to The Greyhound-Database
Home  |  Dog-Search  |  Dogs ID  |  Races  |  Race Cards  |  Coursing  |  Tracks  |  Statistic  |  Testmating  |  Kennels  
 
   SHOP
Facebook
Login  |  Private Messages  |  add_race  |  add_coursing  |  add_dog  |  Membership  |  Advertising  | Ask the Vet  | Memorials    Help  print pedigree      
TV  |  Active-Sires  |  Sire-Pages  |  Stud Dogs  |  Which Sire?  |  Classifieds  |  Auctions  |  Videos  |  Adoption  |  Forum  |  About_us  |  Site Usage

Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.

Please read the forum usage manual please note:

If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.

In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.

Read more...

All TopicsFor SaleGD-WebsiteBreedingHealthRacingCoursingRetirementBettingTalkLogin to post
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
Do you need advice on how to train a greyhound?

bags racing the new way forward in ireland?page  1 2 3 4 5 

Carole Shinkwin
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 859
Dogs 0 / Races 0

22 Jul 2018 12:59


 (3)
 (1)


Hi Martin was given the wrong information this is whats going on:-

A dog trainer is looking to sell or rehome at least 80 dogs in light of the potential closure of Belle Vue greyhound track.

The M.E.N. revealed earlier this week how the future of the historic venue is under threat after a developer published plans to build 243 homes on the site.

Countryside Properties circulated a leaflet to residents and councillors laying out plans to turn the stadium - which opened in 1926 and was the first greyhound track in the country - into a housing development.

A planning application is expected to be submitted soon although Countryside does not currently own the site.

Crown Oil Pensions Fund, a subsidiary of the Bury-based firm, bought it in 2014 for 2.5m.

Also as I stated I am totally against Bags/SAS. if run on the same principle as the UK it ties up a trainer and owner to one track who have to supply an extremely large amount of dogs, this to me is a welfare issue and that is why there is so many demonstrations outside UK tracks by the Antis. In the UK trainers are not allowed to run their graders at different tracks as is the case here in Ireland, they also are not allowed to have the dogs card this remain at said track. If they wish to run graders at a different track which does not have contract trainers then the relevant trials are required. Bags/SAS are bookmaker run and they have all the say. As most bookmakers do not offer any contributions to the sport why should they have the "icing on the cake".



Martin James
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1128
Dogs 5 / Races 0

22 Jul 2018 13:01


 (2)
 (1)


Henning,
You need a pool of 70 odd exposed dogs as in non time finders, _, within reason. I assume Clonmel doesn't have those numbers.
I was told Newbridge had 550 dogs in the pool Celtic Tiger time. Probably 100 now at a guess.
Tracks could build their numbers of course because most of the UK Bookie dogs are sold on from here.
Owners would need a degree of certainty about racing opportunities though to keep the dogs here.
There is a Media Battle in the UK over dog broadcasting (2 groups both broadcasting dogs) which I don't understand
Also live dogs are required in the Shops to allow fixed odds betting terminals to operate. These are very lucrative for Bookmakers but restrictions on losses are to be introduced by Government which it is alleged will lead to shop closures.
.


Henning Olesen
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 246
Dogs 2 / Races 0

22 Jul 2018 14:42


 (1)
 (3)


Martin,
Ok...didnt know that Clonmel lack dogs for SIS. The shortage of dogs has been coming long time. I personally hope that will be SIS in Clonmel,.. havent heard anything bad about SIS in Youghal, only good things.


David McGrath
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 978
Dogs 47 / Races 4

22 Jul 2018 15:47


 (3)
 (2)


Kieran, I would be most surprised if both Paschal and yourself were not well aware that the SPs for non BAGS evening racing in Tralee are unchanged from his time as Chairman of the Board.


Paschal Taggart
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 716
Dogs 0 / Races 0

22 Jul 2018 21:41


 (3)
 (0)


David
It is 2006 since I was Chairman. I know the betting market has deteriorated since then. In 2006 the tote turnover was 52 million and the bookmaker turnover was nearly double that.
My fundamental belief is that the majority of owners like a bet, as I do. Greyhound racing and horse racing is all about the bet. With no turnover bookmakers cannot lay proper odds, if there is not proper odds then owners and syndicates are not going to invest in greyhounds. I do not know what the figs are today but they are fractions of what they were in 2006.
Not here to boost about our figures only to say that the greyhound game will struggle if there are no betting opportunities.
Young people are betting online more than ever on horse racing, football, golf, and GAA not to mention poker and casinos. Very little interest in greyhound racing.
Conclusion, poor odds less betting less greyhound ownership, less people going greyhound racing.
Irish BAGs are only highlighting the very poor prices available at normal race meetings. Are the bookies being paid to stand at BAGS meetings, I understand they are. For the previous ninety years they had to pay a fee to stand.
Last question where have all the big punters gone, either dead, given up or just broke.



Kieran Boles
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 319
Dogs 0 / Races 0

22 Jul 2018 22:34


 (3)
 (1)


Paschal Taggart wrote:

I do not know what the figs are today but they are fractions of what they were in 2006.

Page 22 of the Power report shows that bookmaker betting had fallen from 90.2 million in 2007 to 12.7 million in 2016.

It is a shocking fall in turnover and now the IGB are selling off control of race meetings to SIS. They are getting 317 per race and are paying out 465 in prize money as well as paying staff and operating costs to run the meeting.

How long before they stop subsidising these SIS meetings and do you think it will be by getting more money from SIS or by cutting the prize money to owners.




Martin James
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1128
Dogs 5 / Races 0

23 Jul 2018 09:58


 (6)
 (0)


EXTERNAL LINK


Keith Elliott
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 214
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Jul 2018 15:26


 (6)
 (2)


skipping through this thread it would appear irish greyhound racing is in(or going to be in)a worse state than it is in england


Maurice Mullaney
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 376
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Jul 2018 15:38


 (5)
 (2)


Its not too late for Limk/Clare Goba to get a Better deal for owners,

or better still tell bookies where to go.#

Not to long ago they went on Prime Time to Defend this Board.
How about they stand up for the owners?

The day you are TOLD when your running will be the end.
Is it true owners only make a Fiver back from" showing up? Entry 10, 15e Run Money?


David McGrath
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 978
Dogs 47 / Races 4

23 Jul 2018 23:49


 (8)
 (4)


Paschal, I understand that, I was merely replying about the Tralee non Bags betting market.

I first went racing there in 1972 with my Father RIP, and we used to go every Tuesday and Friday night except when the Track would close for a while in the Winter.

Tunney Galvin R.I.P. and the Barret brothers with their stylish trilbies were the mainstay of the market as far as I recall.

The first race on a Tuesday was always a sprint and the standard betting was 6/4 5 of the runners and no price the Favourite until the dogs were going into the boxes when someone might take it on.

Just like now, it is completely different to BAGS racing, most owners, although liking a bet were more interested in getting a sale from their young dogs.

It was impossible to make any other kind of book at that time as their was very little form to go on, most dogs would be sold after two or three races and it was almost unheard of to see a two and a half year old dog running on the track at that time..

Things are different now and most tracks have many three and some four year old dogs running.

They have long been exposed as being at a particular level and it is straightforward for the racing manager to grade a competitive Graded BAGS card.

When the BAGS meetings started, people said that it would never last in Tralee with all the strokes that would be pulled but that is simply not the case as there is a large pool of dogs whose owners are happy to let them run for the prizemoney and not have to back them.

I understand that Youghal is the most popular of the BAGS meetings with the Betting Shop Customers and that product is very successful, the only issue is the negotiation that the Board did regarding the price per meeting, which is reported as significantly less than the corresponding fee in the UK.

Obviously there have been issues with another BAGS venue but one or two cowboys pulling an easy stroke while creating a short term gain for themselves, will simply wreck the opportunity for those who want to run their dogs in this system.

The big punters have almost all disappeared from the Arena, either behind their screens in their home offices or to other sports where they can get a bet on.

The Greyhound Scene website is full of examples of people being restricted to a few cents on their accounts and you then add Betfair to the mix who are allowed to accept wagering on the greyhound product without paying into the fund, for which they should hang their heads in shame.

Realistically, the only way to create a viable betting market for is via a Tote monopoly that works well in the US and Australia and funds the industry effectively.

It may be that the buzz of the bookmakers is missing but we are a long way from the heady days of twenty or more bookmakers lining the rails at Shelbourne Park.

I attended every flapping track in Scotland and the North of England in the 90s and early 2000s and there would regularly be 15 or more bookmakers at Armadale on a Monday night with punters backing dogs that had little or no discernible form and absolutely no discernible breeding.

The same dogs would run at Wallyford, Carfin, Thornton, Wishaw as well as officially at Powderhall, with different names at each track and that was all part of the intrigue and the betting markets were huge.

Times are completely different and the population is choosing to spend their leisure Euro in comfortable surroundings and they demand high standards.

I believe that the opportunity is there to create a successful industry as it was in the early part of the Millenium, but it will be the Hospitaliy as opposed to on Course betting that will draw individual owners and syndicates.

The betting figures will continue to increase through BAGS and the Board need to be far more savvy in their negotiations with the Betting Industry.

Like yourself I had several dogs in training with my great and much missed friend, Seamus Graham and like yourself we had an Irish Derby Finalist together although unlike yourself, we hit the crossbar!

Seamus was a man who loved nothing more than setting a dog up for a touch in Shelbourne on a Thursday or Saturday night and he was in a class of his own at it, we all loved being involved on the inside track.

Although living in Scotland we spoke on the phone several times a week for many years, when mobiles came in, he had to have the biggest bill in the Country!

Looking at the owners and punters attending Shelbourne now, many of them are not interested in betting and are there to see their dogs run.

I havent had a bet for years and get a lot more pleasure looking at dogs that I have bred or own, racing at the best level that they can and always trying to breed that Classic dog or bitch that we all strive for.

It is great to hear your views regarding the Industry, even if I dont agree with all of them but I respect what you did to drag the Industry into the 21st Century.

We need people with vision to lead the Industry and hopefully the upcoming appointment of the new Chairman or Woman will give a boost to us all and a support to the new CEO, God knows the Industry needs it.

There are a lot of young men and women, all around the Country, working long hours breeding and training greyhounds, trying to rear their families in the Industry and the Board has to create a strategy that will secure a future for them.




Paschal Taggart
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 716
Dogs 0 / Races 0

24 Jul 2018 08:23


 (4)
 (3)


David
I agree with all your observations based on experience and love of the greyhound
Yes it is time to consider a tote monopoly with large payouts on exotics to create interest and betting turnover.
Yes it is all about facilities. However, because the population is only the size of Birmingham there is a limiting factor as to what is viable.
With the likes of Seamus and his contempories already deceased and you and me and nearly all of our greyhound friends in the waiting room where are the future owners and breeders to come from.




Kieran Boles
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 319
Dogs 0 / Races 0

25 Jul 2018 13:13


 (9)
 (2)


David McGrath wrote:

The betting figures will continue to increase through BAGS and the Board need to be far more savvy in their negotiations with the Betting Industry

The problem with the above quote which ties into the IGBs current strategy is that while the betting figures may increase, the beneficiaries of this increase are the bookmakers and not the greyhound industry.

This point was not lost on the HRIs Brian Kavanagh who recently stated In 2017 Tote Ireland saw a seventh successive year of turnover growth. Revenue grew 7.2% from 96.8m to 103.8m in the year All profits from Tote Irelands operation go directly back in to benefit Irish racing. EXTERNAL LINK Also remember that in 2007 the IGBs Tote revenue was slightly higher than the HRIs which suggests that the IGBs 2017 Tote should currently be over 100 million p.a. (not under 20 million) if the industry had been properly run over the past decade.

David, your quote, the Board need to be far more savvy in their negotiations with the Betting Industry is very lenient and another example of your apologist attitude towards the IGB, defending the indefensible, while at the same time having no problem lambasting the IGOBF members who unlike the IGB executive are not paid for their time.

The IGBs strategic plan should be focused on driving the Tote revenue because unlike hospitality, this revenue stream is not limited to numbers of seats / tables at the stadiums. This will let IGB negotiate deals with companies like SIS from a position of power because they will have maximised that particular revenue stream and know exactly what it is worth to the industry.

But this requires a sales & marketing department that is fit for purpose and an IT department that maximises technology to develop communication channels to highlight specific products that have been developed for the multiple customer segments that apply to this business model.
Does the IGB even have a person responsible for IT and if so, are they still in that position after the Tote crash debacle last April?

When you examine the IGBs two recent reports, you will find very little substance regarding IT & marketing. The IGBs strategic plan lists the marketing budget rising yearly from 1.538 million (2016) to 2.005 million (2022) so the IGBs pathetic performance is not due to budget shortages.

In fact, the only detail with regard to marketing activities comes on pages 22 & 23 of the Power Report where he mentions the IGB has revised and re-developed its Tourism Sales Strategy and as part of this, appointed a Tourism Sales Manager. 2016 was the first full year that this position existed, and the results have been very positive.

How the Power Report can say results have been very positive when you benchmark the IGBs financial data beggar's belief! Are tourists going to drive the IGB's tote turnover and become regular customers? Is the IGB still spending 300k+ a year on a call centre in Thurles to handle restaurant bookings when their website has an on-line restaurant booking system?

THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT THE GREYHOUND INDUSTRY URGENTLY NEED TO CHANGE NOT ANOTHER NATIONAL OWNERS & BREEDERS ASSOCIATION.





Ray Jones
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 411
Dogs 3 / Races 2

25 Jul 2018 21:28


 (3)
 (0)


Paschal Taggart wrote:

David
I agree with all your observations based on experience and love of the greyhound
Yes it is time to consider a tote monopoly with large payouts on exotics to create interest and betting turnover.
Yes it is all about facilities. However, because the population is only the size of Birmingham there is a limiting factor as to what is viable.
With the likes of Seamus and his contempories already deceased and you and me and nearly all of our greyhound friends in the waiting room where are the future owners and breeders to come from.


I agree a tote monopoly is the way to go,the races need to be streamed on the Internet to other countries for it to be viable though,because as sure as eggs are eggs the off course bookmakers will only take and you can't even get a decent bet on with them anyway,I was referred to trader after trying to have 20 on my dog with Ladbrokes,it was only 7/2 and it was deemed a large bet,luckily enough for me the race was off before they made a decision and it lost anyway,don't ask me about Pasdy Power and Bet 365 they are even worse hahaha


Maurice Mullaney
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 376
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Jul 2018 17:00


 (0)
 (0)


Bad weather for the first "bags" in Limerick tonite.

Im sure the "Run Money" will help them in the Wet Grass.

What was the final deal?, 40/50 Euro Run Money?


Paschal Taggart
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 716
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Jul 2018 20:13


 (2)
 (0)


Ray
What a joke. 20 euros. Unfortunately I can see greyhound owners and breeders getting out of the game altogether. To repeat myself greyhound racing is a gambling sport and if you cant gamble it is a waste of time.
No gambling no excitement.
Watch the volume of betting on Galway Races next week, both on track and off track. Watch how many owners and trainers go for a touch.
I have asked before but are the on course bookmakers getting paid to stand at the BAGS meetings.


Martin James
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1128
Dogs 5 / Races 0

26 Jul 2018 20:29


 (0)
 (0)


250 Euro is the rumour Pascal to stand. Prices 7/2 and up from that to make having a bet in the shop or on line attractive.
Overall the Bookies run a very slick operation.
It should be pointed out that owners who actually race at these meetings are generally happy to do so as I understand it.


Martin James
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1128
Dogs 5 / Races 0

26 Jul 2018 20:40


 (0)
 (0)


maurice mullaney wrote:

Bad weather for the first "bags" in Limerick tonite.

Im sure the "Run Money" will help them in the Wet Grass.

What was the final deal?, 40/50 Euro Run Money?

Probably a score Maurice.
Shortest priced winner on the night 2/1 in the last. All other winners 3/1 and better.





Paschal Taggart
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 716
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jul 2018 06:10


 (0)
 (0)


250 to stand. Do you know how much will they lay. Obviously there are a lot of owners who do like the BAGS with more and more tracks coming on stream.


Paschal Taggart
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 716
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jul 2018 06:23


 (0)
 (0)


Had a look at the Limerick prices. Very , very good, no comparison with non BAGS pricing. Shop punters will be happy. My only question are what can the owner expect to get on and what are the average attendances.


Mary Crotty
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1116
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jul 2018 09:53


 (9)
 (0)


Iam racing in SIS racing in Tralee and I have yet to meet a owner who is complaining about those races . Lets face it its people with graders who are keeping the tracks going ,not the people who come on here complaining especially the ones who dont have a DOG . ....

posts 96page  1 2 3 4 5