home - to The Greyhound-Database
Home  |  Dog-Search  |  Dogs ID  |  Races  |  Race Cards  |  Coursing  |  Tracks  |  Statistic  |  Testmating  |  Kennels  
 
   SHOP
Facebook
Login  |  Private Messages  |  add_race  |  add_coursing  |  add_dog  |  Membership  |  Advertising  | Ask the Vet  | Memorials    Help  print pedigree      
TV  |  Active-Sires  |  Sire-Pages  |  Stud Dogs  |  Which Sire?  |  Classifieds  |  Auctions  |  Videos  |  Adoption  |  Forum  |  About_us  |  Site Usage

Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.

Please read the forum usage manual please note:

If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.

In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.

Read more...

All TopicsFor SaleGD-WebsiteBreedingHealthRacingCoursingRetirementBettingTalkLogin to post
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
Do you need advice on how to train a greyhound?

Future of racing in Victoriapage  1 2 

Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

08 Feb 2019 02:03


 (6)
 (6)


EXTERNAL LINK



Steven Martin
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7681
Dogs 180 / Races 66

08 Feb 2019 02:33


 (7)
 (3)


9 of the 12 races are 311m. Great future ah Charles.

Over regulations to breeding. Increase in fees & paperwork. And scaremongering tactics have all help reduce breeding to a level where maybe this industry will never recover.

Death by stealth.

Thx do-gooders.


Ian Bradshaw
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

08 Feb 2019 03:02


 (5)
 (1)


steven martin wrote:

9 of the 12 races are 311m.


Number of starters 5,5,6,5,7,8,7,8,6,6,8,7

Total 78

Satisfactory trials handed out...8

Is it any wonder that punters are now switching to betting on sports events?




Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

08 Feb 2019 03:03


 (0)
 (0)


steven martin wrote:

9 of the 12 races are 311m. Great future ah Charles.

Over regulations to breeding. Increase in fees & paperwork. And scaremongering tactics have all help reduce breeding to a level where maybe this industry will never recover.

Death by stealth.

Thx do-gooders.

Steven,

Whenever I inquire about these proportions the club invariably says "this is what trainers ask for".

In the cases of Cranbourne I asked why they could not knock down the fence and make a decent 400m out of it.

The irony is that there are a number of clubs that offer the 300s but there is a much bigger number that have nothing less than the 400m bracket and seem to get on OK.

Incidentally, falls over the 311m are more common than over 520m.
Many dogs cannot handle that home turn well.




Martyn Empson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 149
Dogs 0 / Races 3

08 Feb 2019 06:26


 (0)
 (0)


EXTERNAL LINK


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

08 Feb 2019 07:38


 (1)
 (0)


Noms Extended:

Ballarat T3 67
Meadows 50
Geelong 300+70
Horsham 57


Martyn Empson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 149
Dogs 0 / Races 3

08 Feb 2019 07:53


 (0)
 (0)



EXTERNAL LINK

Advertised Events
Maiden 311 (Six Dog Maiden Program)
Maiden 520 (Six Dog Maiden Program)
Maiden 699 (Six Dog Maiden Program)


Paul Jones
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 39
Dogs 0 / Races 0

08 Feb 2019 11:04


 (7)
 (6)


Well said Michael


Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

15 Feb 2019 00:20


 (0)
 (0)


Noms extended

Bendigo 53
Meadows 36
Horsham 73


Robert Morris
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 695
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Feb 2019 09:42


 (0)
 (0)


Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.


Sam Watson
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 315
Dogs 0 / Races 0

15 Feb 2019 23:14


 (2)
 (1)


Robert Morris wrote:

Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dailly's having the full field? I dont see the issue.. if they've got the dogs why not nominate? someone has to win the prizemoney. If no one else has dogs to nom i'd be doing it also.

Smaller fields are great for those breeding/buying pups and dogs, means less competition and same amount of prize money to be won.


Ian Bradshaw
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 00:09


 (1)
 (0)


Sam Watson wrote:

Robert Morris wrote:

Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dailly's having the full field? I dont see the issue.. if they've got the dogs why not nominate? someone has to win the prizemoney. If no one else has dogs to nom i'd be doing it also.

Smaller fields are great for those breeding/buying pups and dogs, means less competition and same amount of prize money to be won.

Sam,

I totally agree with your last comment, but, how long do you think it will last?

Prize money aside, the cost of putting on meetings with 10 races with empty boxes, (Geelong last night, 10 races, only 1 race with no empty boxes), is the same as a 12 races with no empty boxes meeting.

Reduced betting turnover because of reduced number of runners?

No doubt our learned friend Bruce can answer that question by tapping the right buttons on his network of computers.

I don't believe small numbers of races and empty boxes is a good look for the industry. It reminds me of going into shops that are closing down, instead of empty boxes, they have near empty shelves.

I am waiting for the GRV to bite the bullet, and concede there is not enough dogs to sustain the current number of meetings.




Michael Barry
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 7404
Dogs 26 / Races 9

16 Feb 2019 00:18


 (0)
 (0)


ian bradshaw wrote:

Sam Watson wrote:

Robert Morris wrote:

Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dailly's having the full field? I dont see the issue.. if they've got the dogs why not nominate? someone has to win the prizemoney. If no one else has dogs to nom i'd be doing it also.

Smaller fields are great for those breeding/buying pups and dogs, means less competition and same amount of prize money to be won.

Sam,

I totally agree with your last comment, but, how long do you think it will last?

Prize money aside, the cost of putting on meetings with 10 races with empty boxes, (Geelong last night, 10 races, only 1 race with no empty boxes), is the same as a 12 races with no empty boxes meeting.

Reduced betting turnover because of reduced number of runners?

No doubt our learned friend Bruce can answer that question by tapping the right buttons on his network of computers.

I don't believe small numbers of races and empty boxes is a good look for the industry. It reminds me of going into shops that are closing down, instead of empty boxes, they have near empty shelves.

I am waiting for the GRV to bite the bullet, and concede there is not enough dogs to sustain the current number of meetings.


ian, they have already conceded that its a distinct possibility later in 2019 , its on page 26 of this months , greyhound monthly


Ian Bradshaw
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 251
Dogs 6 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 01:11


 (0)
 (0)


Michael Barry wrote:

ian bradshaw wrote:

Sam Watson wrote:

Robert Morris wrote:

Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dailly's having the full field? I dont see the issue.. if they've got the dogs why not nominate? someone has to win the prizemoney. If no one else has dogs to nom i'd be doing it also.

Smaller fields are great for those breeding/buying pups and dogs, means less competition and same amount of prize money to be won.

Sam,

I totally agree with your last comment, but, how long do you think it will last?

Prize money aside, the cost of putting on meetings with 10 races with empty boxes, (Geelong last night, 10 races, only 1 race with no empty boxes), is the same as a 12 races with no empty boxes meeting.

Reduced betting turnover because of reduced number of runners?

No doubt our learned friend Bruce can answer that question by tapping the right buttons on his network of computers.

I don't believe small numbers of races and empty boxes is a good look for the industry. It reminds me of going into shops that are closing down, instead of empty boxes, they have near empty shelves.

I am waiting for the GRV to bite the bullet, and concede there is not enough dogs to sustain the current number of meetings.


ian, they have already conceded that its a distinct possibility later in 2019 , its on page 26 of this months , greyhound monthly

Thanks Michael,

Page 26

GRVs Racing Department would also like to flag the possibility of
reducing the number of meetings conducted during the remainder
of 2019 if the decline of the active greyhound population continues.
Currently the racing program requires 2,200 greyhounds racing
once a week to be totally full. Depending on the utilisation rates
during the upcoming period a critical point may be reached where
it is more effective to reduce meetings. The Racing Department will
be visiting tracks across the state during February to deliver the
above key messages to participants and clubs.

Re-active or pro-active?




Charles W Mizzi
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 684
Dogs 1 / Races 1

16 Feb 2019 02:20


 (2)
 (0)


ian bradshaw wrote:

Michael Barry wrote:

ian bradshaw wrote:

Sam Watson wrote:

Robert Morris wrote:

Always being short of nominations leads to situations where a trainer can see no Grade 7 dogs entered then nominate 8 dogs & end up with the whole field & GRV have no choice but to schedule the race to get a full program.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dailly's having the full field? I dont see the issue.. if they've got the dogs why not nominate? someone has to win the prizemoney. If no one else has dogs to nom i'd be doing it also.

Smaller fields are great for those breeding/buying pups and dogs, means less competition and same amount of prize money to be won.

Sam,

I totally agree with your last comment, but, how long do you think it will last?

Prize money aside, the cost of putting on meetings with 10 races with empty boxes, (Geelong last night, 10 races, only 1 race with no empty boxes), is the same as a 12 races with no empty boxes meeting.

Reduced betting turnover because of reduced number of runners?

No doubt our learned friend Bruce can answer that question by tapping the right buttons on his network of computers.

I don't believe small numbers of races and empty boxes is a good look for the industry. It reminds me of going into shops that are closing down, instead of empty boxes, they have near empty shelves.

I am waiting for the GRV to bite the bullet, and concede there is not enough dogs to sustain the current number of meetings.


ian, they have already conceded that its a distinct possibility later in 2019 , its on page 26 of this months , greyhound monthly

Thanks Michael,

Page 26

GRVs Racing Department would also like to flag the possibility of
reducing the number of meetings conducted during the remainder
of 2019 if the decline of the active greyhound population continues.
Currently the racing program requires 2,200 greyhounds racing
once a week to be totally full. Depending on the utilisation rates
during the upcoming period a critical point may be reached where
it is more effective to reduce meetings. The Racing Department will
be visiting tracks across the state during February to deliver the
above key messages to participants and clubs.

Re-active or pro-active?


What about cause-active. This has been caused by GRV and the current CEO who promoted the over breeding myth from another waste of space organisation called Greyhounds Australasia. How do I know, because I sat in his office having a meeting with him when he first arrived and he brought out his calculator and said we need this many dogs. My response.... it does not work like that. Hence, the problem the industry has today.

Now, is anyone looking at the animal welfare issue of over racing, seeing that animal welfare is the GRV cornerstone. I have, and it happens regularly. I don't care what the form of the dog is, or if it is short sprints, unlike horses dogs go flat out from the word go and will chase to their own detriment.

This is all reactive crap, never once have I seen them respond to an issue/problem, even after being told by long time participants that there is a problem. Glowing example (TRARALGON) Integrity, they have none, they are quick to pounce on participants and very slow or never admitting responsibility for decisions made.

Remember it is not the administration that makes the industry successful, it is every trainer and owner and breeder that does all the hard yards day in day out, year in year out. Not me anymore I am done, but I still want to see the industry be successful.


John Charles Caulfield
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 396
Dogs 2 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 04:48


 (0)
 (0)


I don't fully understand the new grading,but the way I read it it is now not worth having t3 dogs as you will be out graded all the time ,



Jeanette Spruyt
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 246
Dogs 2 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 12:50


 (0)
 (0)


john charles caulfield wrote:

I don't fully understand the new grading,but the way I read it it is now not worth having t3 dogs as you will be out graded all the time ,

Mixed messages, I don't know.
At a glance I thought the same about gaining starts with the start of the March calender message.
Even though there was a message and has been a message to keep the dogs racing as long as possible in regards to age.
(I have to admit, I have to find solid time to go over everything in regards to putting out a solid view, and solid time in front of a computer and with the internet, and reading a lot over the internet is not something that I can or want to prioritise highly).
Anyway, where are all the greyhounds, all I have seen or heard is:
stricter rules with education,
more paperwork,
less breeding, then apparently breeding increased,
dogs penalised for lots and lots of reasons,
then Jan 20 certain rules to be activated.
In a nutshell I suppose, that is pretty much what i have read, that I think may have a bearing on the industry.
So maybe I should ask are there still the same amount of trainers?
I suppose you could also ask, have Breeders decreased - persons not dogs?
Have the other associated parties decreased e.g. educators and so on?
Have certain numbers fluctuated and have some of those numbers been replaced with lots of novices, or gone down then up and stabililsed and had some new quality injected, along with the old timers.
The industry was always going to be made better for the dog, that has always been put on loud speaker.
Maybe the agenda is to really go down to the bottom and then come right back up again.
There was a lot of talk, and then actual information, about the syndicates that will take over, is that the future?
I don't know all I know is that there are things that we can and can't control in life.
And I suppose we just have to realise what they are.
And we have choice sometimes to be a part or not be a part of something, so we all have to make our own minds up if it is worth it or not.
We can only do our best, and after that I suppose how much should we really worry about something?




Jeanette Spruyt
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 246
Dogs 2 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 13:02


 (0)
 (0)


Just thought I should add:
Or should we stand up? And how do you stand up? And what would we be standing up for?
All too hard it sounds to me.
I suppose I just have to keep going while I believe that it is worth it.
The underdog may get up, and if it does, it better hurry up, just in case the opportunities get way out of the realm of possibility and/or normality.



Jeanette Spruyt
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 246
Dogs 2 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 13:07


 (0)
 (0)


stupid computer - tried to change the picture that shows near our name on the left of the page.
Didn't work - spewin.
Wanted to change it, gets a bit boring with the same pic all the time.



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

16 Feb 2019 22:18


 (1)
 (0)


qte Sam,

I totally agree with your last comment, but, how long do you think it will last?

Prize money aside, the cost of putting on meetings with 10 races with empty boxes, (Geelong last night, 10 races, only 1 race with no empty boxes), is the same as a 12 races with no empty boxes meeting.

Reduced betting turnover because of reduced number of runners?

No doubt our learned friend Bruce can answer that question by tapping the right buttons on his network of computers.

I don't believe small numbers of races and empty boxes is a good look for the industry. It reminds me of going into shops that are closing down, instead of empty boxes, they have near empty shelves.

I am waiting for the GRV to bite the bullet, and concede there is not enough dogs to sustain the current number of meetings.

Ian,

Thankyou but I keep saying I am now a spectator and not an active player so I no longer keep my db current. Even if I did, the relationship between total betting turnover and other factors is difficult if not impossible to check for an outsider. You can get hold of TABCORP data cds but they are delayed somewhat and awkward to mesh in with other programs.

(Digressing - the same principle applies to the inability of the studbook to speak to the formguide or racing career records. Consequently, you cannot measure the relative quality/percentages of offspring as you can for thoroughbreds. NB Despite their keen efforts, the GD data is unusable due to routine errors in compilation of the input).

On 10 v 12 races: we are forgetting that the industry ran with 10-race meetings for yonks and only progressed to 11 or 12 in recent times. In fact in NSW some went up and then went back down again. In early days there was a strong definition of what was classy and what wasn't. Grades really meant something. Not any more.

For example, race by race turnover depends more on the time of the day than on the quality of the runners - maidens are just as popular as graded races. Plus favourites are horribly over-bet. Only a very few top ranking races have a fair dinkum turnover spread.

The 12 race attraction is twofold: authorities see more races as equalling more total income, regardless of quality, and a longer meeting means that more handheld devices are theoretically in play for gamblers to use their thumbs on.

The missing elements are (1) industry promotion is minimal and generally under-developed - ie we don't give customers a reason to bet, we just hope they will, (2) if you spread the dog talent more thinly you reduce the incentive to bet because at least some punters will not bet on rubbish, and (3) the proportion of good (repeat) punters is declining, partly due to the above.

As against that, if we don't put greyhound races on then TABCORP will put on something else from who knows where. The betting public is finite so you can't get more out of the existing group, all that happens is that the existing cash is spread more thinly (hence lousy takings on SKY2 races).

Commentators here are working from a basis of a significant knowledge of the greyhound. The gambling public does not have that in the main and that ignorance level is increasing. Big worry.

To some extent, all this overlaps with the breeding shortfalls. They are substantial now but have been trending that way for a couple of decades. As things stand today, it is hard to see figures ever getting back to 2014/15 levels, let alone the peaks of earlier decades. Essentially, the industry has no choice but to cut its cloth to suit.

We cannot return to the days when 15,000 went to the track but we can try to simulate that effect by getting closer to the 95% of gamblers/punters who now live elsewhere. As the recipe says, first catch your tiger.



posts 35page  1 2