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Music was to be trialled and reported on. Heard it recently at the Meadows in the kennels. Think music was lower volume than a previous time.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 12 Sep 2020 05:01
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Jason Caley wrote:
Kevin Wright wrote:
howard moshinsky wrote:
not for nothing why would you want to calm a dog down before racing and blunt a natural instinct defeating a possible positive state just asking
Howard Australian dogs are trained away from the track .
Every dog is kenneled in a small race kennel of 8 per bay some spending up to 4 hours this way . Some dogs run their race before it's even started
Some never settle and this has a huge impact on the performance and how a dog pulls up after a hard stressful day and a hard run.
I think you've explained the issue heaps well for people in the industry. For those not aware - it comes down to dogs stressing so badly while waiting for their races that they often fail to present their best at a race track on race day.
The whole purpose of this message thread is to discuss ways highly nervous and anxious dogs waiting for their races can perform at their best.
"Stress heads" - those that can't cope with being held captive in waiting pens before their race are a massive problem to all dogs in the kennel house at the track. They drive up anxiety even in the most calmest and normally placid kennel dogs. It's an understated matter.
There are some people delighted to see a stresser in the kennel house as they believe "that competitor" has given up its racing ability before it even goes out to compete.
It's short sighted - any and all stressers in the kennels raise the anxiety levels in neighbouring dogs. It's not good and more work needs to be done by the racing administration to reduce this.
Jason Leading on from a stressful Greyhound
Has there been any studies to determine the temperature within the lock down race kennels
Example The Meadows Sandown Cranbourne race kennels
Each kennel is made from a different Material Plastic Steel and Stainless steel some with Holes for vents some without Vents .
I think a lot of Greyhounds get overheated before they race I also believe there needs to be more Vents on top of all Kennels .
I also think this touches on Animal Welfare as many times the air is stale and stuffy especially Post race time.... I think POST race kennels could help especially when people have multi dogs racing over the whole program i refuse to place my Greyhound back inside a closed Box for hours..
The crazy thing is we are all banned from placing our dogs at home in a small enclosed kennel but when we race we lock them in a box with no vents on top and then we place them back inside that same box many for hours post race this cannot help a already stressed out dog and we are even banned from giving our race dogs products designed to help and assist these kinds of stress heads ...
We are going backwards not forward when it comes to the Welfare of our Greyhounds ...
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 12 Sep 2020 07:12
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Jeanette Spruyt wrote:
Music was to be trialled and reported on. Heard it recently at the Meadows in the kennels. Think music was lower volume than a previous time.
Hi Jeanette - yes music has also been used at Gawler (SA) for years. It may help some but not many. Most on arrival to track know what they are there to do which is compete. I leave the radio on for my dogs when I leave premises and I think having human voices in the backgrounds helps generally. But in a kennel house, it only takes one or two and then the neighbouring dogs suffer.
I dont have an optimal solution - I have had some success with stressers - but it still doesn't help my calm dogs getting wound up by other dogs in the kennel blocks.
To Kevin's point about welfare - I rate this more important than switching lures every three years.
In Victoria - you can have your dog endorsed for early racing (Races 1-6). It's a nice idea, except that the entire time that stress head is present, its busy stirring up the rest and still unhappy anyway. Split kennelling (half the program in first and 2nd half check in later) would be heaps more effective to address that.
When I was a very small child they had in churches an area called a "crying room" specifically for children which was cordoned off from the main area. If you've got a stresser, why can't they be kenneled in the equivalent of a crying room. It worked for churches back in the day so that folks with kids sat in the soundproofed room.
I think there's heaps of room for improvement that could be done to manage stress versus calm greyhounds being kenneled to await their races at a venue. I just haven't seen any will for any jurisdiction to be innovative and serious about the matter.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 12 Sep 2020 11:14
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Jason Caley wrote:
Jeanette Spruyt wrote:
Music was to be trialled and reported on. Heard it recently at the Meadows in the kennels. Think music was lower volume than a previous time.
Hi Jeanette - yes music has also been used at Gawler (SA) for years. It may help some but not many. Most on arrival to track know what they are there to do which is compete. I leave the radio on for my dogs when I leave premises and I think having human voices in the backgrounds helps generally. But in a kennel house, it only takes one or two and then the neighbouring dogs suffer.
I dont have an optimal solution - I have had some success with stressers - but it still doesn't help my calm dogs getting wound up by other dogs in the kennel blocks.
To Kevin's point about welfare - I rate this more important than switching lures every three years.
In Victoria - you can have your dog endorsed for early racing (Races 1-6). It's a nice idea, except that the entire time that stress head is present, its busy stirring up the rest and still unhappy anyway. Split kennelling (half the program in first and 2nd half check in later) would be heaps more effective to address that.
When I was a very small child they had in churches an area called a "crying room" specifically for children which was cordoned off from the main area. If you've got a stresser, why can't they be kenneled in the equivalent of a crying room. It worked for churches back in the day so that folks with kids sat in the soundproofed room.
I think there's heaps of room for improvement that could be done to manage stress versus calm greyhounds being kenneled to await their races at a venue. I just haven't seen any will for any jurisdiction to be innovative and serious about the matter.
Jason Early race endorsements has it's downfalls because if u win a heat then if the final is race 7 then your dog will not be drawn because of the early race approval ..
Split kenneling .More air flow in the kennels ..Quiet kennels for over excited dogs has got merit .
The biggest problem we have now is that most Kennel blocks are closed so you cannot introduce Track kennels to young dogs and bitches this must change if we are to help these dogs because race track kenneling is a very important step IMO..
My bitch took many months of kenneling before every trial before she started to settle down and if i was pretraining her today i would have no hope of helping her settle and i am lucky she is slow so i get early races most weeks this has helped but many have not got this opportunity....
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 12 Sep 2020 11:30
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Kev - agree 100% - actually I was shocked that I couldn't place one of the dogs in kennels before trials due to Covid. I kinda accept that times are unique so Iĺl let it pass. But as for consideration of just let's say one row of 8 places for stressers in a sound proofed area. They can annoy each other to their hearts content without affecting the rest that just get it and will wait patiently. Well to me anyway this is an effective pretty easy solution to implement.
Early race restrictions on dogs just cuts out their opportunities to race full stop whether heats or in general so it is not an answer just a cop out. I'll never sign a dog up for a limited and restricted career even if the opportunity to do so exists.
With the main topic, I think it is a two way street, probably best I dont expand any more on my overall thought with that comment. n.b. Putting that aside, I remember a post you made Jason about your dogs, one that I have never heard of so much - explained in such a simple yet descriptive insight, I really got where you were coming from (cannot find it since) but anyhow the next day you won first up at Sandown (prior to abandonment happening), and when I realised the connection , I thought to myself you deserved that win. I try and keep my posts to a minimum these days but sometimes you cant help but add something. And of course G-D is usually a good read, and Its good for a chuckle now and again - love any quick witted humour that gets thrown in, thats the best.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 13 Sep 2020 02:09
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Jeanette Spruyt wrote:
With the main topic, I think it is a two way street, probably best I dont expand any more on my overall thought with that comment. n.b. Putting that aside, I remember a post you made Jason about your dogs, one that I have never heard of so much - explained in such a simple yet descriptive insight, I really got where you were coming from (cannot find it since) but anyhow the next day you won first up at Sandown (prior to abandonment happening), and when I realised the connection , I thought to myself you deserved that win. I try and keep my posts to a minimum these days but sometimes you cant help but add something. And of course G-D is usually a good read, and Its good for a chuckle now and again - love any quick witted humour that gets thrown in, thats the best.
Jeanette
I remember not backing Jasons dog that day My race got abandoned so we all got paid but best was to come when i was drawn into the final and that also was abandoned so the 8
finalist all got paid the 10k split .....I made more money without racing my girl in one week than she has made for the past 6 months of racing ...
Yeah I think I walked past you while you were waiting to go to the boxes, then not long after that the announcement was made. I was happy because I got to go home earlier. Yeah your a lucky duck, randomly drawn into the final. What a pearler, yeah and for the final your dog didnt even look like it had run, not even a pant or for some a lot of sand in their eyes. What a cool race.
Must say that was a pre race calmer for me that day, but me dog could not get it, more so cause he had been kennelled officially, he didnt even want to get in the car, and when he did he had a bit of a say about it, very confusing for him. Even the guy next to me had the same scenario pretty much.
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 13 Sep 2020 10:10
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Jeanette Spruyt wrote:
Must say that was a pre race calmer for me that day, but me dog could not get it, more so cause he had been kennelled officially, he didnt even want to get in the car, and when he did he had a bit of a say about it, very confusing for him. Even the guy next to me had the same scenario pretty much.
Jenette Having a Slow dog has its benefits ..You have no expectations of getting a win but you enjoy the other benefits that come along with racing a Greyhound for fun ..
I had a great feed i was the first person out of the kennels into my car and home in 10 min ..The easiest money i have ever earned in Greyhound racing ...
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 14 Sep 2020 13:09
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Kevin Wright wrote:
(snip)
I remember not backing Jasons dog that day
me too! I do however remember Ladbrokes stating in form comments 'Not a competitive betting proposition' which I found rare and unique commentary for a first starter. So was more than happy to get the photo having read that anyway. I thought Polarising would beat mine. Sometimes they can surprise everyone, even their owner.
Well when I say I didnt back I didnt use my money. Thanks Ladbrokes for that the bonus bet however ;)
First starters can be just a guess sometimes, its only a guide. I get a comedy one for my veteran sometimes, I always have a good laugh.
As for slow dogs, other factors can come into play - headspace for one. Sorted out race kennelling issue, cant have mats ripped up each time, have to muzzle him, and for health and safety too, and blankets banned not so long ago, he didnt rip them up in race kennel.
I do have expectations but I just dont get disappointed anymore. Home track advantage, will rail on his terms, loves to run. I know him fairly well and his past, and before his retirement Im just hoping that he will have a real special run, one for the viewers. And sometimes I have to go back to the drawing board, but hes pretty patient with me. So who knows!
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 16 Sep 2020 13:36
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Hey Jeanette - I laugh too mostly at comments in form guides too. The reason I found a first starter being 'not a competitive betting proposition' published by a betting agency was however that well I thought betting companies would encourage any money not discourage it.
I kind of understand it on dogs with form and history. But for a first starter, I don't know. I was happy as it clearly kept money away from my dog but thinking about it from a company perspective, I just had to laugh about it because it was like don't spend money on this. But we want your money and we like gamblers. So which is it? lol. Makes no difference to me but I found it very unique commentary from an organisation designed to take money and profit from punters. That's anyway probably the only thing that made the win stand out. And it motivated me to go grab a "Covid face mask win photo" which I swore to myself I would never do. For first starts, better to say things like "prefer others" etc. But to say "not a competitive betting proposition" before dog has set foot in an official start, oh well I bought a covid times photo for history and dog got raspberry swirl ice-cream. No one here was upset. ;)
Yeah well Ive never heard that description before, must be running out of words or trying to appeal to the greater audience , it does sound a bit posh actually. Compared to one of mine - will get run off his feet or something like that. So think yourself lucky you got a corporate one !
P.s. I hear what you are saying about a first starter, usually they will refer to sire or dam, trainer or litter, or whatever. As first starters are first starters. Oh well some people may take note, and others will have their own choices, names, numbers, instinct, whatever.
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 16 Sep 2020 14:22
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Haha yep I hear you. I like "will get run off his feet". Had that with a few winners. It's not important to me what is said about the dog so long as the dog does its best and gets around safe. But yeah for first starters, I think form commentators should keep them safe. Just say "prefer others" or here's the breeding etc having first start. Leave the rest until the dog starts developing some form anyway. It was weird, it was the first time I have seen it in my life frankly but it all worked out. Good on him (Burnsy).
p.s: click on Private messages - think I found thread you were speaking of earlier?
Yeah good on him. All the best. Hopefully one day I can enjoy that post race calmer raspberry swirl ice cream.
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 16 Sep 2020 14:33
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Jeanette Spruyt wrote:
Better get back on track (pre race calmers) your now talking about post race calmers - ice cream!
Oh dairy products and anything with lactose in it can definitely pre-race calm a dog.. just not for performance reasons. Today's party is tomorrow's hangover etc. Sure you can calm a dog before a race with ice cream and lots of dairy, provided you don't want a competitive race from them. Lol
Sorry Jason, only looked at PM just now. Doesnt look like the post , it was more in line with knowing each dog and what their about, accepting for what they are . I cant be exact but it was good (cant remember just resonated), Ill find it one day, Just gotta break from here sometimes cause I find its like Im on a bender, and the forum can affect my timelines (my issue!). P.s that wasnt the funny comment about my dog - thats the serious one ( run off its feet) when racing with other and at a better meeting. The joke /pun is more like - hasnt struck gold for a while, hence racing name Striking Gold. LOL Tell ya what, we were having a laugh in front of the board at Horsham, when they finally got the decimals on the board (from just zeros) , like as it was like 160 odd, yeah someone would strike gold if he came in.
Probably gonna go for early endorsement for him, his done his time with race 12s. He doesnt like GAP. Hes beautiful/sweet but his definitely likes to keep me busy due to shredding of his bedding. I can not give him a normal bed as he will destroy it. He has a plastic pallet - good size, and it is carpeted and attached. We create a nest every night, him and me, and hes comfortable. He just doesnt have a lot of patients when it comes to waiting to go to races. P.s I dont think hell ever get done for failing to chase.
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