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Simon Milgate Australia (Verified User) Posts 2043 Dogs 23 / Races 0 22 Nov 2023 21:53
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Exiting times ahead for all those breeders who put their faith in Aston Rupee. His first litter is 17 months old and I'd be keen to know any early reports from breakers etc.
Simon Milgate Australia (Verified User) Posts 2043 Dogs 23 / Races 0 24 Nov 2023 18:51
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 25 Nov 2023 07:37
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Havent heard anything yet Simon. My mate has a nice litter out of Lady Ferdinand that will be going to break in soon. Looking forward to seeing some of his offspring hitting the tracks soon. Cheers
Simon Milgate Australia (Verified User) Posts 2043 Dogs 23 / Races 0 19 Dec 2023 21:59
Positive feedback back on the progress of my litter breaking in, Very happy.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 20 Dec 2023 19:39
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As a pedigree enthusiast , be very interesting to see the outcome of this heavily linebred / duplicated litter in terms of distance range and class level it reaches ?
Many would say non city and 300 mtr dogs .
Let the show begin and the debate or confirmation to follow
Michael Fitzgerald Australia (Verified User) Posts 714 Dogs 11 / Races 25 20 Dec 2023 22:15
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
As a pedigree enthusiast , be very interesting to see the outcome of this heavily linebred / duplicated litter in terms of distance range and class level it reaches ?
Many would say non city and 300 mtr dogs .
Let the show begin and the debate or confirmation to follow
The dam, Aston Amore, was a 350-450 metre racer and didn't start on a city track presumably because she couldn't run the distance.
In her only litter so far to race, by Bella Infrared, it seems she's passed those same attributes to her pups so I'm not sure it'll be entirely Aston Rupee's fault if the litter turns out as you describe "non-city and 300 metre dogs".
My assumption is that they put Amore to Rupee in the hope of stretching her progeny range out beyond the 450 metre mark.
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 21 Dec 2023 01:41
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
As a pedigree enthusiast , be very interesting to see the outcome of this heavily linebred / duplicated litter in terms of distance range and class level it reaches ?
Many would say non city and 300 mtr dogs .
Let the show begin and the debate or confirmation to follow
I know mum didnt do much and hasn't produced much yet but the fact that both sire and dam of this pup have the same damline to such a prominent bitch in Elle - who was a 500 metre dog who has thrown dogs with plenty of speed and strength........I personally can see why they have decided this cross may be worth a crack,
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 21 Dec 2023 09:09
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
As a pedigree enthusiast , be very interesting to see the outcome of this heavily linebred / duplicated litter in terms of distance range and class level it reaches ?
Many would say non city and 300 mtr dogs .
Let the show begin and the debate or confirmation to follow
Sorry I should have been more detailed in the angle I was referring my interest in .
This isnt about the brood or the sire in particular or either one at fault for results , only the breeding itself and its extremely high intensity levels when you cross any of her dams sires over the sire of choices dam !
They are all @ 100 % , which for many is the explanation or theory to breeding squibs / injury prone and so on etc . Point is more cons then pros when breeding like this .
She has thrown a 500 mtr dog to Bella infrared and every pup in the litter has won a race !
She throws winners ?? Why not breed with her ?
Again this isnt about her or the sire ! More the angle of how the litters breeding will turn out with such intense nicks .
Thats all Im interested in as its a debate thats endless . And a research thats so intriguing to the point where can it really be even ball park answered !
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 24 Dec 2023 10:39
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Hi Nathan,
Firstly Merry Xmas to You and yours and a safe and prosperous New Year.
Assume you are talking about this mating https:/ CLICK HERE (sorry have to resign in for the external link). I can see what you are saying about the front page intensity however I wldn't be judging a book by it's cover, so to speak.
My first thought wld be to linebreed Light of Fire through different individuls as 8x TR holder Awesome Assassin was from this damline and it may work from that perspective https:/ CLICK HERE - 94% within 5 gens looking at the blood quota table.
Merry Xmas to all.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 25 Dec 2023 13:01
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Firstly Merry Xmas to You and yours and a safe and prosperous New Year.
Assume you are talking about this mating https:/ CLICK HERE (sorry have to resign in for the external link). I can see what you are saying about the front page intensity however I wldn't be judging a book by it's cover, so to speak.
My first thought wld be to linebreed Light of Fire through different individuls as 8x TR holder Awesome Assassin was from this damline and it may work from that perspective https:/ CLICK HERE - 94% within 5 gens looking at the blood quota table.
Merry Xmas to all.
Cheers mate ! Merry Xmas to you and family and hope all is going ok !
The mating in question is very intriguing for many reasons ! Great pick with LOF ! Why wouldnt you ???
Personally I just want to see if the heavy duplication is offset with the outcross .
Just curious for results and further debate as to what could be the reason or not pending results eg . Numbers to track , soundness , distances reached and class level peaks . As imop its a mating that represents either hit or miss with the front page intensity being so high with many nicks at 100% , no cover judging , just factual stats when the sires dam line is crossed .
Be a fool to predict outcome , who would have thought no winners in her second litter compared to every pup a winner in her first litter ???
Love the mating personally as it scratches a lot of my own questions or queries in the pedigree breeding area .
Only observing on this mating , not searching for the ideal angle to a nice mating which as usual you have done and found with LOF , as always class !
New year . New luck Ryno !
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 26 Dec 2023 14:12
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
.............Just curious for results and further debate as to what could be the reason or not pending results eg . Numbers to track , soundness , distances reached and class level peaks . As imop its a mating that represents either hit or miss with the front page intensity being so high with many nicks at 100% , no cover judging , just factual stats when the sires dam line is crossed .
Be a fool to predict outcome , who would have thought no winners in her second litter compared to every pup a winner in her first litter ??? .....................................
Interesting stuff Nathan.
Just as Graham Moscow may have predicted with his theory re outcrossing - the dams pedigree cldn't cope with 5 Temlee sire strains in a row with the Bolero litter. It's not impossible but the nos indicate it's highly unlikely.
Playing devils advocate and assuming this litter to Rupee fails, wld you then think the difference cld've been due to Rupee only carrying a partial outcross versus Bella Infrared being a full outcross(bar Star Chariot), or wld you have another reason in mind ?
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 26 Dec 2023 22:04
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
.............Just curious for results and further debate as to what could be the reason or not pending results eg . Numbers to track , soundness , distances reached and class level peaks . As imop its a mating that represents either hit or miss with the front page intensity being so high with many nicks at 100% , no cover judging , just factual stats when the sires dam line is crossed .
Be a fool to predict outcome , who would have thought no winners in her second litter compared to every pup a winner in her first litter ??? .....................................
Interesting stuff Nathan.
Just as Graham Moscow may have predicted with his theory re outcrossing - the dams pedigree cldn't cope with 5 Temlee sire strains in a row with the Bolero litter. It's not impossible but the nos indicate it's highly unlikely.
Playing devils advocate and assuming this litter to Rupee fails, wld you then think the difference cld've been due to Rupee only carrying a partial outcross versus Bella Infrared being a full outcross(bar Star Chariot), or wld you have another reason in mind ?
At face value with such high intensity or duplication , I would personally point the finger at the most obvious being the possible error for that bitch in particular . Which is important to note , not every brood or damline has the same reaction or results .
This breeding has produced inconsistent results many times over the last 50 years . One mega star with 80% wastage ?
The litter we are playing devils advocate with , the available information at hand and 2 pups named weeks after breakin to the Aston rupee litter , looks like the mating has thrown ability at a calculated but unknown guess !
Time will tell numbers / class level and distance stats !
Another angle to look at results with the matings shown in the last week is to me there looks like a maternal cycle when the damline is in building mode ( double duplications , heavy linebreeding etc ) example below
https:/ CLICK HERE then when all positions are in full quota so to say , it then goes into throwing mode or nick positioning then strikes and chasers are hit , regardless of how its measured in blood intensity etc . Example below
https:/ CLICK HERE How else can these results be explained , and who else at the Fernvale Ruby litter point in time when it went a bit cold , would have gone again on the very same duplication ?
Like Ive always believed and said , an endless debate with endless techniques with each individual damline and or at the timing when its performed .
Its all relevant which is what makes it so diverse and fun imop
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 27 Dec 2023 04:26
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Well it appears to be explained by the same positioning of the intensities in the pedigree. Also seemingly produces stronger types when the intensity is thru litterm8's possibly ?
For example with Hidden Agenda https:/ CLICK HERE Scissor Queen is reintroducing her pedigree thru a different individual in DKH which was previously successful with the same dameline https:/ CLICK HERE .
Another example you had found Nathan in Yachi Bale https:/ CLICK HERE . Greta Bale is reintroducing her pedigree thru a different individual in Bartrim Bale https:/ CLICK HERE who previously produced a superstar litter when previously put over this same line.
The other example Stanley Road https:/ CLICK HERE you need to reverse the ped https:/ CLICK HERE to get the similar positioning. Then take the 2nd dam up the sireline Princess Bale putting Where's Pedro over her https:/ CLICK HERE who previously nicked really well with the line and you create that 100% litterm8 intensity thru different individuals again.
Looks a very similar, if not same pattern to me. Just one gen back up the sireline the last one, which packs a fraction less punch.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 27 Dec 2023 07:30
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They are similar , except for Hidden Agenda has a three peat instead of 2 in comparison to yachi and Stanley , and the other notable that cant not be noticed is the outcrosses that seem to balance yachi and Stanley close up as apposed to Hidden Agendas 1 outcross back in the 4th ?
Amazing ?!?!? Maybe thats the difference between the 3 litters in that fine line where a successful GRP dog on more then one occasion in its career is produced and a GRP finalist on one occasion !
Again , great credit to breeder or owner regardless !
Can I ask whos idea and what was the conversation like to go again on the Surf lorian x Surf Queen cross for a 3rd time ? After the 2nd duplication of this cross went a bit quiet .
Cheers in advance !
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 27 Dec 2023 12:47
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If you look at this mating https:/ CLICK HERE from a 100% perspective as an example, what is it actually saying ?
(i) there are no litterm8's here like Pedro/Hal (ii)the close up 100% is a front page intensity and likely to fail going on past circumstance.
ON THE OTHER HAND :)
If you reverse this ped https:/ CLICK HERE and look at it from a positional linebreeding perspective it gives up this nick https:/ CLICK HERE and we all know what happened when that was done previously https:/ CLICK HERE - Aston Dee Bee resulted.
At the end of the day you can't pot the mating because it cld give up another ADB type, but at the same time it's risky and really going for broke. That's from looking at this ped from a 100% intensity perspective.
And then there's that Light of Fire angle mentioned earlier.
Rohan Gladman Australia (Verified User) Posts 99 Dogs 6 / Races 0 27 Dec 2023 21:24
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Ive done a few breakers of his ,they chase ok and easy enough to work with quick learners no doubt he will throw a freak
But there temperaments arent super , very stressful types and barkers
Im saying that I brought a few cause of there chase and hope there kennel habits will change in time
Tony Gaiardo Australia (Verified User) Posts 37 Dogs 4 / Races 1 27 Dec 2023 22:55
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I would tend to agree in my very humble opinion. I can see why you would look to cross with a sire that has Barcia in his lines given the success previously but it is very close up. Kind of hard to get away from inbreeding in any mating for this dam given the dominance of Barcia Bale with most current sires. I like this cross https:/ CLICK HERE - really nicely balanced line breeding that captures important dominant lines. The presence of brother fox / promises free multiple times is exciting for obvious reasons. Happy to hear other thoughts on this - love the different perspectives!
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 28 Dec 2023 00:46
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Donna Sadler wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
As a pedigree enthusiast , be very interesting to see the outcome of this heavily linebred / duplicated litter in terms of distance range and class level it reaches ?
Many would say non city and 300 mtr dogs .
Let the show begin and the debate or confirmation to follow
I know mum didnt do much and hasn't produced much yet but the fact that both sire and dam of this pup have the same damline to such a prominent bitch in Elle - who was a 500 metre dog who has thrown dogs with plenty of speed and strength........I personally can see why they have decided this cross may be worth a crack,
Simon Milgate Australia (Verified User) Posts 2043 Dogs 23 / Races 0 29 Dec 2023 06:27
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rohan gladman wrote:
Ive done a few breakers of his ,they chase ok and easy enough to work with quick learners no doubt he will throw a freak
But there temperaments arent super , very stressful types and barkers
Im saying that I brought a few cause of there chase and hope there kennel habits will change in time
Dam has a lot to do with that aswell, the litter I have has 1 bitch that is a bit over the top other than that the other 7 are good and quick learners, trainer is very pleased.
Paul Ballantine Australia (Verified User) Posts 284 Dogs 10 / Races 8 11 Jan 2024 00:54
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Simon Milgate wrote:
Exiting times ahead for all those breeders who put their faith in Aston Rupee. His first litter is 17 months old and I'd be keen to know any early reports from breakers etc.
There is one in vic racing today. Im looking forward to seeing his stock hit the tracks . Over the next 12 months we should have a good guide of what he throws into his stock.
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