Well Bruce, that is quite an interesting response there...where do I start? From the start I guess.Firstly, thank you for making an exception and replying...jolly good...I'm blessed. Secondly, I do not attack(as you put it)people for no reason. Quite the contrary. I always treat people with respect when they show me respect and when they deserve it. I admit I do enter lively debate, use sarcasm, humour, bent wit, and occasional "verballing" when that recipient is guilty of the same. There is an old saying..."You reap what you sow." When you attack participants(which I include myself)with degrading, condescending, and down right rude remarks I find it difficult to return the serve with respect, Bruce. So I suggest if you don't like the reap, don't sow what you sow. Up to you. I'm quite obliging either way although I prefer straight talking non-pompous conversations. I'm glad we got that out of the way because I really want to get into the "meat" of this, because I think it is important that the record be set straight. QUOTE - "1. I wrote almost exclusively on the subject of research or the lack of it. FOL and lures just happened to be one of several examples." I know you did, Bruce, but it is where you went terribly off track and told untruths. QUOTE - "2. You have written almost exclusively on the subject of lures which is fine for you but getting off topic." No Bruce, it is bang on topic..."Finish on lure in NSW". I'm talking about the type of lures allowed in NSW which include finish ons...keep focused please. QUOTE - "3. Broadly, I don't have many problems with your claims and theories but the detail is lacking. As I have said several times, my view is that the lure bans were a hasty overreach. I also challenged complainants to stop moaning now and start getting together data and other evidence to show the new rule is a bad one. How to do that is beyond my knowledge or experience." You have previously stated that using animal by-products are a "live-baiting derivative". You have also stated previously that the lure rules will not change and that participants need to stop whinging and adopt WDA's recommendations...quite contrary to your above statement, Bruce. The world is full of contradictions sometimes...depending on whether you remembered what you have previously wrote... QUOTE - "4. Your claim that GRNSW issued a "directive" to WDA to reach a certain conclusion is preposterous and an insult to the professionalism of the people concerned." I want you to read the following very carefully, Bruce...it's very important and you need to push aside your bias to WDA for a moment. The "review" is the commissioned report from WDA. Quote - "GRNSW wants to support a sustainable and vibrant industry and move away from any reliance or association with animal products on lure. The Review is required to: review and assess current domestic and international methods of the rearing, socialisation education and training of greyhounds in their lifecycle including any significant shift from the use of live animal baits and lures. identify and recommend best practice rearing, socialisation education and training methods that exclusively use artificial and synthetic materials as a bait or lure (ie do not involve the use of live or dead animals or animal products)" I'll highlight the points of interest so you can't miss them... "GRNSW wants to support a sustainable and vibrant industry AND MOVE AWAY FROM ANY RELIANCE OR ASSOCIATION WITH ANIMAL PRODUCTS ON LURES. The review is REQUIRED to review and assess current domestic and international methods of the rearing, socialisation education and training of greyhounds in their lifecycle including any significant shift from the use of live animal baits and lures. identify and recommend best practice rearing, socialisation education AND TRAINING METHODS THAT EXCLUSIVELY USE ARTIFICIAL AND SYNTHETIC MATERIALS AS A BAIT OR LURE(IE DO NOT INVOLVE THE USE OF LIVE OR DEAD ANIMALS OR ANIMAL PRODUCTS. Preposterous and an insult, is it? QUOTE - "5. The question of toys and their types is also out of my field. The WDA point was that they were useful in other breeds - and are used to some degree by greyhound educators - so why not use or adapt them further. It is not possible to asset blandly that toys are of no use at all - who knows what sort of toys might be developed? What materials? What smells? I merely ask the question." What other breed of dog is asked to race against 7 others, at approx 70klms an hour around a tight circuit, where they are subjected to bumps, knocks, collisions, and so forth and under extreme pressure, Bruce? What other breed of dog succeeds under this pressure and circumstances using toys to achieve the ultimate result? What other breed of dog has its 4 chasing senses enriched enough by using synthetic toys? Apply normal common sense to answer the above. Maybe they might invent a toy that can heighten the sight, sound, smell, and taste of a Greyhound in the future, Bruce. What a glorious invention of an imagination you have! We have the problem NOW, Bruce, and the integrity and whole infrastructure of the industry is collapsing NOW!!! "Don't worry folks, sometime in the near, or far future we might have a solution...maybe" says Bruce. We're in safe hands with you, cobber. QUOTE - "6. In effect, you are claiming that the absence of "good" lures means half of the four senses, including "prey drive", are short changed, thereby seriously affecting FTC problems. You may be right and you may have experienced that but (a) you may have done things the wrong way and (b) you cannot possibly speak for the entire greyhound population." In effect, what I am saying is that taking away a universally accepted practice of rewarding animals with specific food rewards greatly diminishes the result of teaching that animal to complete a task efficiently, especially under pressure. Yes, I can speak for the entire Greyhound population on this subject, Bruce, because the entire industry works with the same animal - a canine, a carnivore, a hunter, who relies on its senses to focus on its task...take any of those senses away and you compromise that animal's focus. QUOTE - "7. Further to the last point, a substantial proportion of that population never gets past the early education stage for whatever number of reasons, including FTC, irrespective of methodology; an additional proportion don't reach a decent standard because they don't chase well enough for which there may be many reasons, too. Toys v skins might well be part of that process but you cannot know that - you are just voicing an opinion." " irrespective of methodology" You are guessing, and wrongly, based on no practical experience at all. That doesn't cut it, Bruce. Do yourself a favour and go and visit a few breaking in establishments, something WDA should have done to achieve an unbiased view of synthetics versus sheep skins and carcasses used in yesteryear. Ask them for their honest OPINION based on actually working with the dogs what effect the introduction of synthetics has made on their success rate. Let me know your findings...I know. Of course I'm voicing an opinion!...based on factual practical experience. And you? QUOTE - "8. WDA recommended more education and further research into a number of matters. So do I. But it has not happened. That's the important point. When you get around to preparing submissions to authorities about this you might remember that the vast majority of decision-makers will know a lot less than I do about the business - so they will be keenly interested in solidly based proposals. Opinions will not rate." Yes, WDA recommended further research, so why didn't that stop them from declaring - " ALL lures to be synthetic, of non-related animal material and not resembling an animal shape." To me, THAT'S THE IMPORTANT POINT. Bruce, only recently have I submitted suggestions to the PTB in regards to rewards and lures. I have based them on personal and industry experience. You are confusing the knowledge you have about certain matters in the industry with you lack of knowledge about the animal. If the Greyhound's ability to chase continues to be compromised, there will be no Greyhound Business. Get off your lazy bum, train a Grey and learn about it. Only then will you truly understand the industry.
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