The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
We have a MASSIVE welfare problem within this industry in Ireland, which has to be addressed before its too late. These dogs that run for us are living creatures and not commodities to be discarded when no longer any use to us. They are dogs and deserve a retirement after racing, not put in pounds or sent on the slippery slope. Working closely with welfare, rescue and rehoming i see all too often dogs coming to us from pounds , off the streets, some surrendered, many in disgraceful condition, skin and bone, bald, mange, covered in sores, with fleas, worms, etc. Some big name dogs too. Surely these dogs deserve a decent life after racing and more should be done to secure this for them. A few weeks ago we took in a 10 year old bitch who went down this slippery slope, sold with all good intentions by her owner to someone he thought would care for her, who then sold her to another with less care than him, and on it went until she ended up in the wrong hands. Having unregistered pups at 10 years old, weighing 23kgs when should be 30kgs, bald, sore and with the saddest eyes you could imagine, 3 weeks later she weighed 29kgs and had her life back. Her pups came too weighing 4kgs at 5 months old. This beautiful and now healthy girl is heading for a new life in Italy and the pups doubled their weight in 3 weeks. The day after she arrived her son came in too, a very large boy weighing just 23kgs totally bald and covered in sores. I wish pictures could be posted. He now weighs 33kgs. This is a huge problem this country needs to sort out. So next time you offer your dog for free to good home or for a few hundred pounds/euro, just think about where it will end up !!!!
Here is another example of how a dog will end up in the wrong hands, a greyhound rescue was rang up yesterday to take a middle grade dog who had broken down again on first run out. Rescue said yes they would take him and then got this message back : Hi we were talking to a stud owner since I rang u and they mite b interested in putting the dog to stud. Well this dog is not stud potential and the only people that would take him would be a guy who will breed to his own probably crap bitches then end up with the dog, mother and all pups needing homes. its a shame that these people can't see what is best for the dog.
Agree with you on all counts but I don't think anything will change until the IGB get their own kennels for retired dogs, there is no excuse for any greyhound ending up in the pound or rescue's but the majority of people can't be bothered to get the dogs neutered or spayed and all the injections so easier to dump them on someone else.
Allison I fully agree with you on all accounts. I used to work very closely with PAWS and had the dogs from them that needed special care and saw all sorts. I am afraid there are too many greyhounds now looking for their forever home and I am told the girls in Italy are now finding it very hard to find good homes. I myself have 3 maybe 4 that need good homes, but I like to hear how they have settled into their new homes,then I can feel they are safe. I have 3 rehomed in Sweden in 2014 but the lady who rehomed them for me will not do so again as she is anti greyhound racing and I race my greyhounds. This, as you stated is a problem that has to be urgently addressed. It would also help if each track had its own rehoming system.
Chris that's a great idea about IGB having their own kennels, but i doubt we will see that happen. My only reservation with it would be getting the right people to run it making sure the dogs get the best chance of finding homes. Too many dogs in UK seem to be waiting forever in kennels.
I doubt it will happen but we can hope. I recently had 2 go to the UK for homing 1 was homed quickly but the other BK d is still waiting but at least he is now in foster, but I had 1 that raced in the UK & had to wait quite a long time to go into rehoming so I would think this channel for Irish dogs may well close up soon. If I see any greys on the website for a rescue I tell them to contact Barry to get funding.
One problem with IGB funding is that they don't fund unraced dogs or stud dogs/brood bitches. Apparently once they have been used for breeding they are no longer a race dog.
One problem with IGB funding is that they don't fund unraced dogs or stud dogs/brood bitches. Apparently once they have been used for breeding they are no longer a race dog.
Hi Alison, I know of someone that had both an unraced pup (no race name) and a stud dog rehomed via IGB. Not sure about the broods though.
Thank you for pointing that out. They must have changed their policies recently. We no longer rehome through IGB as we have our own contacts in UK and Italy, but for many years we were refused by igb to have pups and ex broods rehomed and even sent 4 ex broods to Walthamstow retired greyhound trust just before the track closed.
Yes Alison, the RGT now fund the rehoming of any Greyhound as long as they are earmarked/registered with the ICC, I've myself rehomed 1 unnamed sappling and fostered some oldies who got the RGT funding towards vet stuff. But you're right there's still a major welfare problem that never seem to be addressed properly, in a sustainable way.. A few days ago the IGB uncovered a new boost funding of 700 000, and while they've detailed where the money will be used, there's not a penny going towards welfare, it's quite disheartening :/ 250 000 of this funding is gonna be used towards rewarding breeders : for each of their products' wins they'll get 15... I don't think it's very clever, it was a much better idea when we, as breeders, had a fixed % on each wins as it gets better as the dogs evolve up the grades, so on the long term it'd encourage a better, more selective breeding. While giving away a lame 15 for each win only encourage more breeding. These 250 000 could have been very welcomed towards improving the welfare and encouraging a more responsible rehoming scheme. As Carole points out, there are too many groups who are Anti Racing and although it's a way to " clear up " the kennels to some extent, it's tough for those of us who genuinely care for our dogs to have to deal with such people : once rehomed it can be difficult to have news from the dogs, too often the dogs are used as propaganda tools against racing even though we have always cared dearly for them, and eventually ( and I'm talking for myself here but I'd like to hear from other owners ) there's always this little guilty feeling for having to put pressure on " rescues " to help us finding retirement homes, as if our dogs ( who don't need to be " rescued " ) were preventing those in real need of rescuing from being taken out of cruel situations ! I sometime feel uncomfortable at the contrary speeches we come accross : good, responsible owners should take care of their dogs rehoming but at the same time we are branded bad names because " dogs are for life ", we are part doesn't matter what of the " Industry " that creates so much cruelty, etc... There's loads of mix ups within the welfare issue, and unfortunately too many who still take advantage of this blurriness to keep treating their dogs badly without being really worried by any outcome or consequence. My view is that the IGB/ICC are missing the fact that their passivity on the matter is only allowing Antis to make up ground, and cruel/careless individuals to keep making a bad name for the whole irish racing world. I don't understand why don't they get in touch with the NGA to try and come up with a more serious welfare program, it's so much more organised in the States and many groups if not Pro racing are smart enought to be neutral : they understand the dogs don't need to be rescued, and then it put ex racers under a very positive light, well cared for, socialised, adaptable... I'm a little nobody here, at best a long term tourist, and although I've always been very open on the fact that our greyhounds shouldn't be disposable, promoting rehoming as much as I can at my local track, showing through social medias that racing doesn't have to be cruel, it's very difficult to see anything moving.. You Alison have the chance to own 1 of the best dog in the country, you're in touch with some of the big names, I guess your words could/should have a bigger, better impact on those who are deciding ? To me each track/Goba clubs should have the responsability to set up a rehoming group dedicated to their locals. Either by having their own kennels or by asking owners/trainers to spare 1 or 2 kennels at any time for retired greyhounds until they get homed. Then these local groups working together with the help of IGB/ICC would have to promote our dogs retirement in a positive way instead of dispatching them blindly between more or less Anti groups ! I'd be willing to take part in something like this but only if it's genuine and not another money grabbing way for some or a splash of publicity for others.. The way the IGB addresses the welfare problem and the rehoming is just not appropriate to the actual situation and again, it seems to me that only when some of the big names ( Owners, trainers, breeders )will step in then they will listen more carefully. Lastly, why are the Bookmakers not made to contribute towards welfare ?? At the end it's mostly due to the gambling economy that welfare is in tatters...
That's right Francis but the use of drugs is discussed way more easily ( there is actually a post dedicated to it with something like 145 pages ! ) than the welfare reality : poor cared for greyhounds that everybody have seen at some stage but nobody want to talk about it publicly, seriously. The Irish problem around welfare is actually quite wide spread and it's very sad to see that such a beautiful and small European country can't seem able to find a way to treat their animals properly, to establish some solid legal base and the much needed enforcement that should come with it. In our case this is very easy to use agaisnt " racing " while cruelty comes from people, regardless what they do. So once everybody within the IGB/ICC will have understood that, they might come up with a more modern and acceptable approach to effectively tackle all wrongdoings and improve significantly the welfare standards for those that they all make a living of : the dogs ! All the ex racers coming up on social medias all skin and bones, sore, badly treated etc are used very efficiently by the Antis against racing when it should be a matter of educating those owners/trainers who are still stuck in the last century with their practices... And when I say " educating " I mean it : it should be done at their own expenses when there's the proof of blatant wrondoings. I've heard many positive things regarding a scheme that the IGB had ran some years ago, Skillnet if I recall well, where loads of country people " discovered " that a Greyhound cannot be treated like a pig, and I can't understand, apart from a financial point of view, why the IGB has stopped this kind of work.
You have a lot of very good and valid points Francine. I completely agree that IGB giving 15 to the breeder of ever winner is stupidity. All this will do is encourage more breeding of poorer quality dogs which will end up on the scrap heap or at best looking for homes. They should be encouraging quality and not quantity. It's a fact that the better quality dogs on the whole will be better cared for while racing and more likely to have a secure future when retired (although not always the case). Breeding from dogs that are simply not of breeding quality just ends up with dogs that have no value to their owners so are badly cared for, dumped, put it pounds, suffer abuse and end up in the wrong hands. It's sad to say but for some of these dogs euthanasia is a kinder option. I also agree that some people need educating. A lot of the poor dogs that come to us are in such a bad state, but the owners are not always intentionally treating them badly. Some times they are just ignorant to the condition of the dogs, they don't realize that the dogs are in such bad condition.
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 06 Apr 2016 16:39
(0)
(0)
Alison Coxon wrote:
You have a lot of very good and valid points Francine. I completely agree that IGB giving 15 to the breeder of ever winner is stupidity. All this will do is encourage more breeding of poorer quality dogs which will end up on the scrap heap or at best looking for homes. They should be encouraging quality and not quantity. It's a fact that the better quality dogs on the whole will be better cared for while racing and more likely to have a secure future when retired (although not always the case). Breeding from dogs that are simply not of breeding quality just ends up with dogs that have no value to their owners so are badly cared for, dumped, put it pounds, suffer abuse and end up in the wrong hands. It's sad to say but for some of these dogs euthanasia is a kinder option. I also agree that some people need educating. A lot of the poor dogs that come to us are in such a bad state, but the owners are not always intentionally treating them badly. Some times they are just ignorant to the condition of the dogs, they don't realize that the dogs are in such bad condition.
Alison,exactly how would you determine if a bitch was worth breeding??
Francine and Carole, We have very few dogs these days and have been very lucky that the couple we have retired in the last couple of years have stayed within a close circle of friends. But of the many dogs that have been here both our own and ones we have cared for, we get many updates from new owners on how they are doing. Facebook is a wonderful invention to keep in touch with people and share pictures. It's a pity we can't share pictures on data, i have lots of my ex dogs in christmas jumpers and kissing cats lol. There are many people like me who love all dogs (and cats, donkeys, horses , goats etc lol) as equals no matter of how they look or how fast they can run, but sadly too many that have no value for them other than what they are worth to them.
Charlie Borg Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2016 Dogs 0 / Races 0 06 Apr 2016 19:42
(0)
(0)
Alison Coxon wrote:
If you don't know that Michael you shouldn't be in greyhounds
I dunno Alison not saying i disagree with you entirely but there have been some very average race bitches produce above average pups and vice versa some great race bitches produce nothing decent , so how does someone know when to take a chance?
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 06 Apr 2016 19:45
(0)
(0)
Alison Coxon wrote:
If you don't know that Michael you shouldn't be in greyhounds
i know what i'd be looking in a bitch ta breed,i asked you what would you consider to be a bitch worth breeding??... Plenty have bred of what you might describe as "not of breeding quality" and got decent pups/dogs and i know plenty that treat their a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9 dogs as well as any top hound gets treated..
If you don't know that Michael you shouldn't be in greyhounds
i know what i'd be looking in a bitch ta breed,i asked you what would you consider to be a bitch worth breeding??... Plenty have bred of what you might describe as "not of breeding quality" and got decent pups/dogs and i know plenty that treat their a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9 dogs as well as any top hound gets treated..
Sadly there are way too many that don't and we end up picking up the pieces unfortunately !!!!!!!
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 06 Apr 2016 20:39
(0)
(0)
Alison Coxon wrote:
michael de ward wrote:
Alison Coxon wrote:
If you don't know that Michael you shouldn't be in greyhounds
i know what i'd be looking in a bitch ta breed,i asked you what would you consider to be a bitch worth breeding??... Plenty have bred of what you might describe as "not of breeding quality" and got decent pups/dogs and i know plenty that treat their a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9 dogs as well as any top hound gets treated..
Sadly there are way too many that don't and we end up picking up the pieces unfortunately !!!!!!!
Unfortunately you are correct, so what about breeding bitches??
If you need help or advice about a dog you are retiring then this is the place for you.
