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Alison, you might enjoy reading the article by our G-D team member, Dick Ciampa. It's in the Greyhound-Data Library and tells about greyhound adoption in the US. In a nutshell, greyhound adoption in America is a joint effort on all levels, breeders, greyhound farm owners, racing owners, kennel owners, race tracks, adoption groups, without anyone asking for "funding" from governmental or administrative bodies. When you tell about greyhounds found in such poor health and condition, I wonder what sort of laws IE and UK have. I am far from saying that there is no cruelty or mistreatment in the US, but our laws against cruelty/cruel neglect of animals are pretty clear. I have personally been involved in bringing such cases to court and gotten convictions. As to greyhounds, owners/trainers etc. who have been found guilty of treating their dogs cruelly or neglecting them are being dealt with by our National Greyhound Association and are banned from the industry.
Alison, you might enjoy reading the article by our G-D team member, Dick Ciampa. It's in the Greyhound-Data Library and tells about greyhound adoption in the US. In a nutshell, greyhound adoption in America is a joint effort on all levels, breeders, greyhound farm owners, racing owners, kennel owners, race tracks, adoption groups, without anyone asking for "funding" from governmental or administrative bodies. When you tell about greyhounds found in such poor health and condition, I wonder what sort of laws IE and UK have. I am far from saying that there is no cruelty or mistreatment in the US, but our laws against cruelty/cruel neglect of animals are pretty clear. I have personally been involved in bringing such cases to court and gotten convictions. As to greyhounds, owners/trainers etc. who have been found guilty of treating their dogs cruelly or neglecting them are being dealt with by our National Greyhound Association and are banned from the industry.
Thank you Ilse , i'll have a look at that, it sounds very interesting.
Michael, this topic was posted to make people more aware of the welfare problems this country has. To try and help educate people and make them think twice about advertising dogs free to good home or for a few pounds. It was not posted for me to show my knowledge of breeding dogs or to advertise my achievement's, but on that note achievement's speak volumes. My vision which will never happen would be for greyhound racing to become more like horse racing. Where only the cream were used for breeding giving dogs a much higher value and be better cared for both while racing and in retirement. Quality not quantity.
Michael, this topic was posted to make people more aware of the welfare problems this country has. To try and help educate people and make them think twice about advertising dogs free to good home or for a few pounds. It was not posted for me to show my knowledge of breeding dogs or to advertise my achievement's, but on that note achievement's speak volumes. My vision which will never happen would be for greyhound racing to become more like horse racing. Where only the cream were used for breeding giving dogs a much higher value and be better cared for both while racing and in retirement. Quality not quantity.
Hi Alison,
Whatever about greyhound racing/breeding ,if you think in horse racing that ''only the cream were used for breeding '' you had better think again.
In greyhound racing ,it is a fact that the best race bitches don't by any means turn into the best brood bitches. Why don't you check out the statistics.
The horse racing industry has its own welfare problems !
Good luck with your work.
JK
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 07 Apr 2016 08:22
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Alison Coxon wrote:
Michael, this topic was posted to make people more aware of the welfare problems this country has. To try and help educate people and make them think twice about advertising dogs free to good home or for a few pounds. It was not posted for me to show my knowledge of breeding dogs or to advertise my achievement's, but on that note achievement's speak volumes. My vision which will never happen would be for greyhound racing to become more like horse racing. Where only the cream were used for breeding giving dogs a much higher value and be better cared for both while racing and in retirement. Quality not quantity.
I fully appreciate anyone trying to improve welfare,but it was yourself that mentioned "breeding from dogs that are not breeding quality"-i just asked you to clarify what you would consider breeding quality?? On horse racing-could anyone,without googling, name- Kauto star's,Best mate's,Istabraq's,Dawn run's mothers?????
Michael i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I would think if you asked a horse breeder or trainer the name of Ballymac Matt or Ballydoyle Honey's dam they wouldn't have a clue. It's not their sport and horse racing isn't mine. It is the sad truth that welfare issues in this country go way beyond greyhound racing, but i'm a greyhound owner and its the greys i'm involved in helping. I find it very sad that there are not more people who give a damn about the welfare issues of this beautiful breed instead of changing the subject, trolling and trying to cause arguments.
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 07 Apr 2016 16:28
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Alison Coxon wrote:
Michael i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I would think if you asked a horse breeder or trainer the name of Ballymac Matt or Ballydoyle Honey's dam they wouldn't have a clue. It's not their sport and horse racing isn't mine. It is the sad truth that welfare issues in this country go way beyond greyhound racing, but i'm a greyhound owner and its the greys i'm involved in helping. I find it very sad that there are not more people who give a damn about the welfare issues of this beautiful breed instead of changing the subject, trolling and trying to cause arguments.
I applaud anyone that promotes welfare issues,full credit to them... if your reference(changing suject,trolling,cause arguments) is directed to me Alison im sorry to point out to you that it was your good self that raised the point of people breeding dogs "that simply are not from breeding quality",i've asked you to explain what "breeding quality" is in your opinion?????????
Michael i was simply replying to a valid comment that had been posted. Imo any greyhound worth breeding from will already be being bred from, so promoting more breeding is promoting breeding from dogs that people would not normally class as breeding quality, how is that a good thing. People breeding more dogs to try and get 15 euro per race winner. Additional litters being bred from dogs they would not normally be used for breeding means more dogs not making the grade, getting dumped, put in pounds, being neglected.
Michael de Ward Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2191 Dogs 4 / Races 1 07 Apr 2016 20:02
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Alison Coxon wrote:
Michael i was simply replying to a valid comment that had been posted. Imo any greyhound worth breeding from will already be being bred from, so promoting more breeding is promoting breeding from dogs that people would not normally class as breeding quality, how is that a good thing. People breeding more dogs to try and get 15 euro per race winner. Additional litters being bred from dogs they would not normally be used for breeding means more dogs not making the grade, getting dumped, put in pounds, being neglected.
I don't think or believe that anyone would really think that anyone would breed a bitch to get the chance of collecting 15euro when the pups would win a race!!!
I don't think or believe that anyone would really think that anyone would breed a bitch to get the chance of collecting 15euro when the pups would win a race!!!
Alisson I totally agre with what you say, the welfare of the dog should come first, but you own Ballydoyle MONEY a super athlete. Will you buy one of mine for a thousand euro..Not giving away free to good home or for a few pound..Will ya ALISON. Dont get vexed with me like you do with everyone else. Im not then worse..
it's really a pity to see that this matter cannot seem to be discussed thoroughly, openly without trying to divert the discussion on other more or less irrelevent matters... I think we all agree that breeding is quite versatile, for a bitch to be good on the track doesn't mean she'll be a good mum, while a non racing bitch ( or a dogge ) can happen to be top notch as a brood. To me the breeding selection and the dogs welfare meet up when satisfactory breeding conditions aren't met : Broods left in dirty kennels, full of fleas/worms, not properly fed, poor looking pups and lastly lack of results ! When a Steward enters a breeder's premises to mark up the pups all these can be checked up, if there's anything wrong then why not issuing a warning, officially but without it being a jail sentence. Then a later inspection will be conducted to check if the pups, breeding stock is in better shape, if not, no more breeding for this person, end of. At 1 point I think there will have to be some breeding quotas put in place, as difficult as it can be to decide on which ground these quotas will be decided, the breeding abilities of each breeder will have to come up in the balance. Then it's also easy enough to check on a bitch's offsprings results on the track : if none has been able to perform, let say not 1 win in the whole litter ( excluding trials ) then she wouldn't be bred again.. Those are only ideas of my own, please don't throw stones at me !
It's disappointing to read comments like " I applaude anybody who's promoting welfare ", but you guys what are you doing in this regard !? How many of you are promoting rehoming publicly, regularly, and genuinely ?? Yesterday I came across a letter from igoba ( there's a post about that ) trying to explain how microchipping is a pain in the arse for everybody..! I find it surprising since this has been in place for pups since last September : why didn't they have complained earlier than that ? Then they say it's more cost.. Well come on, it's under 10 extra !! That the pups are " traumatised " by the chip insertion ?? Lol It's quite comical to me, and disappointing. I understand and agree that financial pressure is heavy on everybody, but their arguments are clumsy, pointing out again and again that Greyhounds aren't pets and shouldn't be considered as such, it is very clumsy and to me it shows how much of a long way Irish people have to go to get their acts together regarding dogs' welfare. Liam, I don't know you, nor Alison, but what on earth does it have to do here weither she'd buy a pup from you or not !? All pups aren't worth thousands, but too many are considered like being worthless, not because they are but because too many just see them as tools : you break it, get another one and keep going.. The majority of the dogs' waste is due to poor handling, little knowledge and a total lack of respect for the Greyhounds.
None of this bull about breeding has anything whatsoever to do with rehoming who cares a damn who breeds with what or what grade they may or may not turn out to be ...its about the people taking responsibility and looking after these poor dogs after they have retired from racing or for that matter not even reached the track. I would be as bold to say the majority in Ireland will take the easy option as they can get away with it since the IGB are a bigger bunch of wasters than the GBGB. We got our kennels checked for the first time in 4 years and it was a joke some guy stood there with a little scribble pad jotting a few dogs names down and taking the ear marks ....missed all the dogs in the field .... and before any smart arse asks if i rehome then yes ALWAYS without exeption ....i have 3 in my house and we rehome to the uk and sweden all through proper channels. If a dog breaks a hock or anything else it is sorted and rehomed as they should be.
Allan if you don't like it you could relocate again back to the UK! Just a few point for those ill informed! The igb was one of the first in the world to deduct prize money for retired Irish greyhound fund and do a great job in re-homing greyhounds all over the world. I am unsure what the GBGB do for retired greyhounds if anything as I have no interest whatsoever in racing in the UK this past 30 odd years as it has only ever been on a downward spiral majority of the race tracks are dirty run down kips, could this be the reason you relocated back to Ireland?
As for the other ill informed comment by Francine Jestin regarding microchiping I think you should read below before making silly ill informed comments.
The Irish Greyhound Owners & Breeders Federation requested this meeting to discuss microchipping of greyhounds. Greyhounds are part of an Industry which makes a significant contribution to the Irish economy. Junior Minister Tom Hayes told the Joint Committee on Agriculture last October that Mr Jim Power Economist estimated that the Irish Greyhound Industry employs just over 10,300 people directly and indirectly making a tax contribution from that employment of 21million. The IGOBF had previously sent in a Submission to the Department on the 8th March 2016 on the subject of microchipping greyhounds and requesting greyhounds be exempt from this regulation. It was pointed out by the Federation as Greyhounds are athletes who can reach speeds of up to 35 40 miles per hour for short distances and have very thorough traceability through their DNA and Identity Cards showing all markings even down to the colour of toe nails, therefore there is no need for greyhounds to be included in the microchipping regulation until they are retired from racing. Greyhounds are and have been the only traceable breed therefore no need to be microchipped. They are different from pet breeds. Correspondence from two of Irelands highly respected veterinary surgeons was given to the Dept Officials, this highlighted the trauma microchipping can cause young puppies and coupled with getting ear marked can leave a puppy very nervous and may set him back including going off their food for some time. Also migration of microchips in puppies with little or no body fat is more likely. Microchips have migrated down as far as the wrist which can compromise their racing performance. Young greyhound puppies can be hard to restrain and there have been reports of nerve damage and even paralysis when the animal struggle when being microchipped. In other cases, microchips have migrated close to the skull after being microchipped at a young age due to the long needle length used to insert the microchip. The Federation presented X Ray evidence from a greyhound with classic potential whose performance had deteriorated significantly since being microchipped. When this greyhound was examined and then X Rayed by the Vet the microchip was found to be in a deep position close to the greyhounds spine therefore causing distress and an early end to the greyhounds racing career. Second X Ray evidence was given from a greyhound sapling who had been microchipped three weeks previously, the X Ray showed the microchip had migrated to a position four inches down and between the 4th & 5th rib area. In reply to this evidence the Department stated that microchips need to be put in correctly and an ISO type microchip is recommended as it is less likely to migrate. Also as there is a possibility of a microchip being faulty the microchip should be scanned before it is implanted. The Department felt that if these recommendations are adhered to the chips should not migrate. Therefore, as with pet breeds there should not be a problem with microchipping. The Minister for Agriculture can change the regulation for greyhounds but to do this the Federation need to come back to the Department with more evidence and instances of problems created by microchipping greyhounds. The Federation had a meeting recently with the ICC to discuss concerns regarding microchipping and following on from this the ICC have asked their Control Stewards to go back and scan pups that had been microchipped previously. Resulting from this the information the Federation has to hand at this time is that 1 in 10 microchips in pups had moved. The Federation expressed concern with this as it is not good enough. A strong case was made by the Federation to have greyhound pups exempt from microchipping until they are being named and marked for racing. It was pointed out that one of the main the factors leading to owners and breeders leaving the Industry is they are losing money. This added expense caused by microchipping is another disincentive for owners & breeders. The Department was surprised at this. In conclusion it was agreed that the Department Officials and Federation meet again in the near future when the Federation can bring more evidence of problems with microchipping greyhounds.
Thats probably the kind of reply i expect Paddy probably because you dont like what you hear ..THE TRUTH ... It has nothing to do with the fact that i live in Ireland or the UK its the way people treat the dogs if and when they finish racing. All i meant was the IGB do no more than the GBGB to help that situation and probably turn a blind eye to what goes on and if a dog or two of ours went missing who in the IGB is going to give a damn or even ask where they are ...thats right they wont!! At least in the UK if a dog is missing and not been rehomed and the paperwork not filled in you get a letter asking where that greyhound is. but even that is going off topic the first post was the treatment of greyhounds and the idea of them being a commodity ....I agree some of the tracks in the UK are not a patch on some of the Irish ones but thats a different subject altogether
Ohh and for the record i love Ireland and the people and wouldnt want to be anywhere else....i also love racing the dogs i just dont care too much for the idiots that mistreat them.
it's really a pity to see that this matter cannot seem to be discussed thoroughly, openly without trying to divert the discussion on other more or less irrelevent matters... I think we all agree that breeding is quite versatile, for a bitch to be good on the track doesn't mean she'll be a good mum, while a non racing bitch ( or a dogge ) can happen to be top notch as a brood. To me the breeding selection and the dogs welfare meet up when satisfactory breeding conditions aren't met : Broods left in dirty kennels, full of fleas/worms, not properly fed, poor looking pups and lastly lack of results ! When a Steward enters a breeder's premises to mark up the pups all these can be checked up, if there's anything wrong then why not issuing a warning, officially but without it being a jail sentence. Then a later inspection will be conducted to check if the pups, breeding stock is in better shape, if not, no more breeding for this person, end of. At 1 point I think there will have to be some breeding quotas put in place, as difficult as it can be to decide on which ground these quotas will be decided, the breeding abilities of each breeder will have to come up in the balance. Then it's also easy enough to check on a bitch's offsprings results on the track : if none has been able to perform, let say not 1 win in the whole litter ( excluding trials ) then she wouldn't be bred again.. Those are only ideas of my own, please don't throw stones at me !
It's disappointing to read comments like " I applaude anybody who's promoting welfare ", but you guys what are you doing in this regard !? How many of you are promoting rehoming publicly, regularly, and genuinely ?? Yesterday I came across a letter from igoba ( there's a post about that ) trying to explain how microchipping is a pain in the arse for everybody..! I find it surprising since this has been in place for pups since last September : why didn't they have complained earlier than that ? Then they say it's more cost.. Well come on, it's under 10 extra !! That the pups are " traumatised " by the chip insertion ?? Lol It's quite comical to me, and disappointing. I understand and agree that financial pressure is heavy on everybody, but their arguments are clumsy, pointing out again and again that Greyhounds aren't pets and shouldn't be considered as such, it is very clumsy and to me it shows how much of a long way Irish people have to go to get their acts together regarding dogs' welfare. Liam, I don't know you, nor Alison, but what on earth does it have to do here weither she'd buy a pup from you or not !? All pups aren't worth thousands, but too many are considered like being worthless, not because they are but because too many just see them as tools : you break it, get another one and keep going.. The majority of the dogs' waste is due to poor handling, little knowledge and a total lack of respect for the Greyhounds.
Totally agree with you Francine. It's not just about whether dogs are rehomed after racing but about the care they receive their whole life. Before, during and after racing. Then that they are cared for and backed until a space is available in adoption kennels. While some dogs receive excellent care, there are still way too many that don't. Too many dumped, put in pounds, neglected, pts, Some might say they are not pets, well what right do we have to say what dogs are pets and what aren't. They deserve to be well cared for while growing, racing and for their whole life.
It's nice to see air time being given to retired greyhounds on UK Sky sports greyhounds, promoting retired greyhounds etc. Apart from taking 2% of win prize money to fund dogs who are being retired, i would be very interested to know what IGB actually do to promote greyhounds as pets and in finding homes for them.
It's nice to see air time being given to retired greyhounds on UK Sky sports greyhounds, promoting retired greyhounds etc. Apart from taking 2% of win prize money to fund dogs who are being retired, i would be very interested to know what IGB actually do to promote greyhounds as pets and in finding homes for them.
itwould be interesting to know if the igb were using that 2% as it is supposed to be usede,is it been used to bolster acounts
James Saunders Australia (Verified User) Posts 4644 Dogs 3 / Races 3 21 Apr 2016 06:19
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No comments from Australia where its kosher to extract money than euthanise..answers must be found or guaranteed industry closure long term..
If you need help or advice about a dog you are retiring then this is the place for you.
