Still off topic. The subject is stayers.

Bruce stop reporting everyones posts for being off topic .

Your hypothesis is that stayers can't back up week to week. The results from three group 1 sprints with heats/finals at Sandown Park show that even the best sprinters don't run the same times week to week, and are often slower in the final.

Perhaps conditions, tempo, box draws and quality of the overall field are bigger influences?

If so, by all means develop your theory but you will need first to establish some staying data to do that. It is pointless to use sprint info to demonstrate a staying principle. Chalk and cheese.

As a matter of interest, no dog runs the same every week - sprinter or stayer. That isn't the concept I advanced. What I have been demonstrating repeatedly over more than a decade is that MOST stayers CANNOT maintain a level. Some even fail miserably.

It would also be less confusing if you created a separate thread to do that. But you will have to cope with Kevin throwing another one of his tantrums, especially as he doesn't like Sandown people.

June 2019 RQ
"From 1 August 2019 Racing Queensland will introduce the Queensland Greyhound Stayers Circuit to develop and promote longer distance greyhound racing in Queensland.

The Circuit will offer a continuous program of events, cater for all types of staying greyhounds, and provide a progression from sprint races to middle distance races to staying races.

The Circuit addresses a number of deficiencies in the current program by focusing on four key entry points for greyhounds stepping up in distance:
1Ipswich Saturday (Class 3) the starting point for low win greyhounds, or greyhounds that havent won Class 1 events.
2Albion Park Monday (Class 2) for greyhounds progressing from Ipswich, or city class greyhounds stepping up in distance. Top-grade Class 1 sprinters will not be eligible for these events.
3Albion Park Thursday (Class 1 600m) for greyhounds progressing from Albion Park Monday, or top-grade Class 1 sprinters stepping up in distance.
4Albion Park Thursday (Class 1 710m) for greyhounds stepping up to the staying distance.

Higher prizemoney levels for middle distance and staying events will support the Circuit in acknowledgement that staying greyhounds race less frequently. Class 2 and Class 3 events over 600m and further will now offer $3,150 to the winner (total prizemoney of $4,725).

To ensure ongoing opportunities for greyhounds stepping up in distance, a minimum of five nominations will ensure staying events are drawn, and a minimum of seven nominations will ensure middle distance events are drawn.

The Queensland Greyhound Stayers Circuit has a landing page on the Racing Queensland website with a full set of conditions. Programs for August, September, and October can be viewed here. The Circuit will remain ongoing with the program updated every 3 months."

Your quote above Bruce. I'm simply pointing out that sprinters - even group 1 winners - often go slower in the final as well, and that other factors (such as those I mentioned above) may have a bigger influence.

It would also be less confusing if you created a separate thread to do that. But you will have to cope with Kevin throwing another one of his tantrums, especially as he doesn't like Sandown people.

My Tantrums as you put it are posts i respond to and unlike you Bruce i dont feel the need for everyone to like what i print what i say and what i do i am not here to be everyones best buddy ok Bruce ...
I dont need to influence anyone all i try to do is put the FACTS out there as i see it and if its a crime for telling the truth them i am guilty as charged ..

I post what i feel some like some dont tuff titties if you dont ,

Your statement about me hating everything Sandown is so WRONG .

I love Sandown i think its the best and safest track in the World i use it all the time and the staff who work there are a great bunch of Blokes ..

I dont agree with greg Millar that Casuals who work at Sandown should be excluded from the End of year XMAS party and that is why i differ from Greg
Gregs an Asshole ..
always has been
and has been in a well payed role at Sandown and with all the money he has had thrown his way over the years you would not of wanted less from any person man or women in his job position.

My beef is with Greg Millar running the syndicates with Spollys and i do not believe this syndicate rort is good for the breeding industry in fact i believe it goes against everything i believe in and thats 100% accountability and honesty ...

The GOTBA committee members train for the Sandown syndicates ..

Greg Millar is being appointed to the borad of the GRV and i also feel strongly that this should not happen because of a huge conflict of interest for the SANDOWN syndicate trainers and there dogs ...

This is so wrong on many levels ..

Clubs should not run Puppy breeding farms its that simple ...

Clubs and the GRV should encourage the breeders to breed by giving them huge breeding bonuses and incentives ..

The GRV have lost so many OTB over the past 3 years so i feel stronger we need to encourage those people back into our sport of our industry will self destruct within 5 to 10 years if we do not address this shortage NOW ..

Wait untill you see races only for Sandown Syndicate dogs it will happen its only a matter of time and this funding will be approved by guess who our new GRV Board Member ..

"Your quote above Bruce. I'm simply pointing out that sprinters - even group 1 winners - often go slower in the final as well, and that other factors (such as those I mentioned above) may have a bigger influence."

I agree. But it is not as relevant to my theme, doubly so in major sprints where endurance would usually be of lesser importance and luck can be of more importance. Witness the last Melbourne Cup where the "best positioned" dog won while the "best" and "fastest" dog managed only third. That is the beauty of racing and form analysis.

I also suggest you could start off your sprinting thread with a survey of high quality dogs which rarely race more than once a week, if that, whereas lesser lights often do. All of which is impacted by many other factors - too numerous to allow a realistic assessment of the breed's trends. I have tried but using race outcomes to do that is too hard and too problematical so I personally dropped that approach and consider each dog individually.

In other words, I see the need for a policy intervention for stayers but not, as such, for sprinters. Still, someone may demonstrate that bans on some short backups may well be desirable. I just don't have the data to support that at the moment.

More rubbish !
If you are analysing form properly you shld be able to get those times to within a half a length most times they step out to race by adjusting for checks and adjusting the track if required, unless the track is badly effected by the elements, dog severely checked etc., otherwise what's the point of doing form ?(rhetorical question).

So, after 10 years why are you still banging on about it here?

why?

I'm waiting for an answer.

Because he doesn't know the answer...and never will

He just doesn't understand greyhound racing...he thinks it can be confined to weights and measures and a mathematical system that he can rely on to punt with......because his systems fail to produce the results he wants...its the industry's fault

A moderate Sandown Cup win, followed by a poor performance in the Sale Cup, set the scene for yet another attempt to get his name in the record books at Brisbanes Albion Park last night. It failed badly.

TT got away quite well in the Gold Cup, briefly leading, but then started going backwards all the way to the judge the first time around. Yes, the reports will show he was elbowed out by a fighter but that simply revealed that Bago Bluff was doing much better aside from losing his cool. Ignore TTs overall time but pay attention to his lack of real interest in the race.

I want to remember his marvellous 41.20 run at Sandown in 2018, a record 41.20 at Albion in June 2018, and another record 41.25 at Cannington after that. Anything after mid-2019 is another dog entirely.

Meantime, Just Terms and Boom Down cleaned up the Gold Cup heats in creditable times but nothing to shout about (41.89 and 41.92). Blazing Cartier looked very strange to the track but that first turn for the 710m trip confuses many dogs. Thats pretty much as good as we have these days.

TT will not be in the final.

PS: Why is it that Queensland (and WA) videos are not published on Ozchase until some days later yet they can be viewed quickly on the RQs own website? Its worth checking also because of Feral Frankys blinding run from last to a 13 length win in 29.67 (Race 7). Great field sense.

True Detective speared out from box 1, challenged for a while by Bago Bye Bye (8), but managed to flop over the line in a moderate 42.08. Boom Down never got into the race after its normal slow start while second favourite Just Terms (7) thundered home late into third spot. It was beaten by the box. The tricky 710m trip was not kind to either of them.

This journey is not a great guide to staying capabilities but suffice to say that six of the eight runners failed to get near their heat performances. The winner did improve but only because it had wandered all over the countryside in its heat, where it managed only 42.45 in running fourth.

Adding an extra 15-20m to this trip would help the field sort itself out by the awkward first turn and would also make it more relevant to other capital city distance races.

Although without the benefit of detailed surveys, my observation is that the turn in question is too flat, possibly influenced by its use as the starting area for 600m races. This leads to 710m newcomers veering off the track (as Blazing Cartier and True Detective did). Even the 600m start is itself risky for inside dogs. Stand behind Box 1 and you will see the dog has to veer right a little to avoid being pushed into the rail. If it does not begin well that will happen anyway.

Either way, the shaping of the turn often causes unpredictable changes to the running order.

Overall records for the 10 Jan meeting are absent, too. Very sloppy.

EXTERNAL LINK
EXTERNAL LINK

1st 1. TRUE DETECTIVETJEFFREY BRITTONProp179361
$5.00
$1.70

$5.10
$2.40

2nd 2. WHAT ABOUT ITTMICHAEL PATTERSONProp179362
$2.20
$2.20

3rd 7. JUST TERMSTJODIE LORDProp179367
$1.60
$2.40

GRV records also copied the mistaken dividend printed in OzChase.