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Test Mating for Paid Members Only page  1 2 3 4 5 6 


Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

07 Apr 2021 11:22


 (2)
 (0)


Hi Michael, thank you for your PM. I have just answered you.

Thank you for your support.


Michael Davison
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 698
Dogs 5 / Races 0

07 Apr 2021 22:55


 (1)
 (0)


Thanks Tony.Payment made.



Jason Caley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 347
Dogs 6 / Races 0

08 Apr 2021 04:42


 (5)
 (0)


I am certain few people here will agree with me about this subscription for testmating decision. But nevertheless here's my thoughts anyway (even if they are contrary to most) --

To me this is the same thing as Wikipedia tomorrow deciding that access to their online encyclopedia is subscriber only.

It ignores the fact that many dogs have been added to the testmating database by contributors on the net. No one was held at gunpoint to add their dogs to the database and its breeding. It was a free contribution that has made this test mating database have its value.

Now - testmating is for subscribers regardless of who added to the database in the past.

This is precisely what would happen tomorrow if Wikipedia decided thanks for the content and your contributions - but we will charge for access going forward.

In the internet and online economy - when you start charging for what was previously free - these models fail ultimately. They become closed and proprietary because they lose sight of the initial contributors that provided the data in the first place.

Prior to the Internet existing, in sales and marketing the expression went "Lose sight of your customers and their needs - lose the customer".

I wish GD well - but this model to sustain a site is ultimately self-defeating. Information and intellectual knowledge only has value when everyone contributes.

By limiting 'add dogs', now testmating, ultimately data will go elsewhere and the entire value of the repository of information that has come to this site frankly from volunteers, will just go elsewhere.

That's my 2c - I don't expect any support for what I am saying - but to take information freely from the Internet at large and later on start charging for it seems a bit rich to me.



Forum Administrator
(Team Member)
Posts 200
Dogs 3 / Races 1

08 Apr 2021 10:19


 (2)
 (0)


Jason Caley wrote:

I am certain few people here will agree with me about this subscription for testmating decision. But nevertheless here's my thoughts anyway (even if they are contrary to most) --

To me this is the same thing as Wikipedia tomorrow deciding that access to their online encyclopedia is subscriber only.

It ignores the fact that many dogs have been added to the testmating database by contributors on the net. No one was held at gunpoint to add their dogs to the database and its breeding. It was a free contribution that has made this test mating database have its value.

Now - testmating is for subscribers regardless of who added to the database in the past.

This is precisely what would happen tomorrow if Wikipedia decided thanks for the content and your contributions - but we will charge for access going forward.

In the internet and online economy - when you start charging for what was previously free - these models fail ultimately. They become closed and proprietary because they lose sight of the initial contributors that provided the data in the first place.

Prior to the Internet existing, in sales and marketing the expression went "Lose sight of your customers and their needs - lose the customer".

I wish GD well - but this model to sustain a site is ultimately self-defeating. Information and intellectual knowledge only has value when everyone contributes.

By limiting 'add dogs', now testmating, ultimately data will go elsewhere and the entire value of the repository of information that has come to this site frankly from volunteers, will just go elsewhere.

That's my 2c - I don't expect any support for what I am saying - but to take information freely from the Internet at large and later on start charging for it seems a bit rich to me.


Jason,
You make some valid points. However, you seem to missing the main point which is without income this site can not function. Wikipedia, as you refer to does rely on public contributions and grants to stay up and running and they receive plenty of funds to do so.

The 'Add Dog' function was limited due to vandalism of pedigrees which ultimately wasted resources and compromised the integrity of the data. This was a decision that was not taken lightly but was necessary. In reality over the last say 10 years very few members (whom the site is eternally grateful too) where inputting large quantities of pedigrees. In reality most other people that did input a dog where doing so for personal reasons such as advertising a dog and not for the greater good. A person who does not currently have the facility to add dogs can still add a dog to the database by emailing team@greyhound-data.com with the details and a team member will do it for them.This adds a tremendous amount of extra work to the team but it still means that anyone can technically still add a dog.
We have put out many calls for support through membership and unfortunately we don't get enough support. To those that did support us over the years we are very thankful and they were helping to provide free access for everyone to use such tools as the testmating mating function. However this is still not enough to host the site and keep it running day to day. So we have to look at other income streams to keep the site afloat.

Jason, can I ask what model you would you suggest that we use to ensure the site remains able to function day to day?





Jason Caley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 347
Dogs 6 / Races 0

08 Apr 2021 10:28


 (3)
 (0)


Forum Administrator wrote:

Jason Caley wrote:

I am certain few people here will agree with me about this subscription for testmating decision. But nevertheless here's my thoughts anyway (even if they are contrary to most) --

To me this is the same thing as Wikipedia tomorrow deciding that access to their online encyclopedia is subscriber only.

It ignores the fact that many dogs have been added to the testmating database by contributors on the net. No one was held at gunpoint to add their dogs to the database and its breeding. It was a free contribution that has made this test mating database have its value.

Now - testmating is for subscribers regardless of who added to the database in the past.

This is precisely what would happen tomorrow if Wikipedia decided thanks for the content and your contributions - but we will charge for access going forward.

In the internet and online economy - when you start charging for what was previously free - these models fail ultimately. They become closed and proprietary because they lose sight of the initial contributors that provided the data in the first place.

Prior to the Internet existing, in sales and marketing the expression went "Lose sight of your customers and their needs - lose the customer".

I wish GD well - but this model to sustain a site is ultimately self-defeating. Information and intellectual knowledge only has value when everyone contributes.

By limiting 'add dogs', now testmating, ultimately data will go elsewhere and the entire value of the repository of information that has come to this site frankly from volunteers, will just go elsewhere.

That's my 2c - I don't expect any support for what I am saying - but to take information freely from the Internet at large and later on start charging for it seems a bit rich to me.


Jason,
You make some valid points. However, you seem to missing the main point which is without income this site can not function. Wikipedia, as you refer to does rely on public contributions and grants to stay up and running and they receive plenty of funds to do so.

The 'Add Dog' function was limited due to vandalism of pedigrees which ultimately wasted resources and compromised the integrity of the data. This was a decision that was not taken lightly but was necessary. In reality over the last say 10 years very few members (whom the site is eternally grateful too) where inputting large quantities of pedigrees. In reality most other people that did input a dog where doing so for personal reasons such as advertising a dog and not for the greater good. A person who does not currently have the facility to add dogs can still add a dog to the database by emailing team@greyhound-data.com with the details and a team member will do it for them.This adds a tremendous amount of extra work to the team but it still means that anyone can technically still add a dog.
We have put out many calls for support through membership and unfortunately we don't get enough support. To those that did support us over the years we are very thankful and they were helping to provide free access for everyone to use such tools as the testmating mating function. However this is still not enough to host the site and keep it running day to day. So we have to look at other income streams to keep the site afloat.

Jason, can I ask what model you would you suggest that we use to ensure the site remains able to function day to day?

Yeah I am assuming this is Tony? I will PM you. There are heaps better ways in the Internet economy than this approach. I would love to see this site stay alive. I think the time bomb is ticking on the current subscription model.

I acknowledge everything you just wrote above. It is simply how can you maintain costs for a site while catering to needs of the very people that are part of this site.

Wiki has a broader scale and it relies on donations. This site is umm specific to say the least. But cutting off your nose in spite of self wont maintain it. I can give you heaps value added approaches but we'll talk offline about that.

I don't want to see you lose the remaining constituency but even I am heaps turned off by this decision about testmating and I don't breed dogs ever and period.

I will give you a hint though to sustaining this operation.. who has the money? Think about it. Is it the readers and users here, is it the suppliers of products, is it something yet untapped. Who has the money that will sustain this operation? Who or what segment of all things greyhounds have the deepest pockets?

After you work out where the money really is to keep this site alive, how will you convince those folks that a want (nice to have) is in fact a need (I must have)? This is marketing and product management 101.



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

08 Apr 2021 21:31


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Jason, this was not my post but it is right on the mark. I thought we had given out around 100 life Gold Memberships to thank those that had entered dogs, races etc. I counted them and the figure is actually 226.

It really is simple we have to update the website or our service provider will pull the pin on it. To do this it is going to cost a lot money which we don't have.

Whether it is a popular decision or not it is one that is needed to keep us going.

I might add the support we have had has been overwhelming and we are now looking to contract an additional IT guy to start the work on the upgrade which will take around 6 months.

Thank you to all that have supported us and are continuing to support us.



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

09 Apr 2021 05:03


 (1)
 (0)


Michael Davison wrote:

Thanks Tony.Payment made.

Thanks again Michael, for supporting us.


Conor Sherry
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 14
Dogs 0 / Races 0

10 Apr 2021 01:45


 (0)
 (0)


Hi I'm having a bit of trouble I have got a bronze membership but every time I go to testmating it asks me to buy a membership and I literally bought the membership today and still can't go to testmating



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

10 Apr 2021 02:16


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Conor, I will take a look. our Irish rep would be in bed so it may not of been processed. I will get back to you soon.



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

10 Apr 2021 02:20


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Conor, you are all set up.

thank you for your support.



Paul Dubois
Ireland
(Verified User)
Posts 1871
Dogs 17 / Races 2

13 Apr 2021 21:27


 (0)
 (0)


I've paid also won't let me test mate ?..



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

14 Apr 2021 09:18


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Paul, I have the team checking it now.



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

14 Apr 2021 09:27


 (0)
 (0)


paul dubois wrote:

I've paid also won't let me test mate ?..

Hi Paul, the team have no record of a payment in your name. Did someone else make the payment on your behalf?



Alan Brazier
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 202
Dogs 29 / Races 9

14 Apr 2021 11:46


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Tony
I have tried to do a test matting and it`s not letting to do one, I have paid for a bronze account please can you help with this many thanks Alan



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

14 Apr 2021 12:11


 (1)
 (0)


Hi Alan, PayPal has just notified us and all should be ok now.

thanks for supporting GD



Alan Brazier
United Kingdom
(Verified User)
Posts 202
Dogs 29 / Races 9

14 Apr 2021 12:28


 (1)
 (0)


Many thanks Tony



Larry Valenti
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1332
Dogs 3 / Races 0

17 Apr 2021 05:08


 (0)
 (0)


Jason Caley wrote:

I am certain few people here will agree with me about this subscription for testmating decision. But nevertheless here's my thoughts anyway (even if they are contrary to most) --

To me this is the same thing as Wikipedia tomorrow deciding that access to their online encyclopedia is subscriber only.

It ignores the fact that many dogs have been added to the testmating database by contributors on the net. No one was held at gunpoint to add their dogs to the database and its breeding. It was a free contribution that has made this test mating database have its value.

Now - testmating is for subscribers regardless of who added to the database in the past.

This is precisely what would happen tomorrow if Wikipedia decided thanks for the content and your contributions - but we will charge for access going forward.

In the internet and online economy - when you start charging for what was previously free - these models fail ultimately. They become closed and proprietary because they lose sight of the initial contributors that provided the data in the first place.

Prior to the Internet existing, in sales and marketing the expression went "Lose sight of your customers and their needs - lose the customer".

I wish GD well - but this model to sustain a site is ultimately self-defeating. Information and intellectual knowledge only has value when everyone contributes.

By limiting 'add dogs', now testmating, ultimately data will go elsewhere and the entire value of the repository of information that has come to this site frankly from volunteers, will just go elsewhere.

That's my 2c - I don't expect any support for what I am saying - but to take information freely from the Internet at large and later on start charging for it seems a bit rich to me.

I fully agree jason and out of respect for my former greyhounds since 1979 that are part of this database I now have to pay for to access them the way I want to . I won't be paying any money. BTW hypothetically another site comes out bigger and better with this testmating service free . Where would that leave this site ?



Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5696
Dogs 1 / Races 1

17 Apr 2021 08:38


 (0)
 (0)


(Edited by Admin)




Jason Caley
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 347
Dogs 6 / Races 0

18 Apr 2021 11:56


 (0)
 (0)


Larry - it seems to be they are fine now.

Here's a quote taken from Tony's reply to my comments --

"I might add the support we have had has been overwhelming and we are now looking to contract an additional IT guy to start the work on the upgrade which will take around 6 months."

So the support has been overwhelming, an additional IT guy is coming on board. It cannot be both at the same time.. either the response has been great and they are hiring or they are struggling for funds to stay alive.

There you go - thanks for contributing to the database.

I note noone ever contacted me when I did PM to offer an approach to raising funds (hint - it had to do with targeted crowd sourcing using Go Fund Me - particularly targeting your vets that hold straws and have a vested interest in seeing your testmatings come to them to be actualised in the real world)

So it seems to me, funds are not the true issue.

Friends and family program is alive and well it would appear.

I won't be paying a cent for this approach and if you'd like to cut off forum access to non-payers, why not. Myopia is Myopia in any case or circumstance. The ideas, thoughts, insights (valuable or not is in the eye of the beholder), will just go elsewhere.

Seems to me our own data and contributions are being held to ransome GD..? Pay up or else? .. despite overwhelming response and hiring another IT guy. GD - you have opened yourselves up to a class action suit by the way.. there was nothing ever about submitting data becoming your property on your site - specifically the pedigree database. So charging for intellectual property on the internet that was previously contributed of good-will freely is a very slippery slope to delve into.

To put this in real world context - you hold very few intellectual property rights on most of the information you retain including your dog database.. simply because no rights were assigned to you when people entered their dogs into the database. You could have elected to assign yourself those rights as a condition of database entry yet you never did. You don't own much of the database you hold yet now attempt to charge access to.

I personally don't want to take any legal action but you do need to understand that your terms of data entry are outmoded so charging now for the data is interesting and easily contested. For the most part you are merely custodians of other peoples intellectual property. That is why wikipedia will never go to a subscriber only model. Because they cannot.. the same as you legally cannot.



Tony Gallagher
Australia
(Team Member)
Posts 5437
Dogs 11921 / Races 40187

18 Apr 2021 20:10


 (1)
 (0)


Jason Caley wrote:

Yeah I am assuming this is Tony? I will PM you.


Jason you say we did not contact you? Your PM never arrived.

"Here's a quote taken from Tony's reply to my comments --

"I might add the support we have had has been overwhelming and we are now looking to contract an additional IT guy to start the work on the upgrade which will take around 6 months."

So the support has been overwhelming, an additional IT guy is coming on board. It cannot be both at the same time.."

Yes Jason you can have both at the same time. We have been very humbled by the amount of support our members have given us. We are also over the moon that we have funds to employ an IT. guy so that work can commence on the website to update it to the required level so that we can stay online.

Quote:
"So it seems to me, funds are not the true issue.

Friends and family program is alive and well it would appear."

I am not sure what the "Friends and family program is alive and well" even means.

But if you are suggesting we are lying by saying:

"So it seems to me, funds are not the true issue."

Then please come out and say it clearly and we will see you in court.

Jason, you simply do not get it. We all love Greyhound-Data and want it to run forever unfortunately this costs money.

If you had been in the greyhound game from the beginning of Greyhound-Data you would realise the passion we all have for it.

I hope your posts on this forum have been posted because you love the sport of greyhound racing and not simply to meet your own agenda, whatever that may be.



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