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Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 21 Jun 2021 03:48
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Big Daddy Cool in your broodbitch?
Inside...
Fernando Bale ($9900) - carrying Awesome Assassin & Head Honcho)
Tommy Shelby, Slingshot Hammer
Black Magic Opal ($10-15000) - carrying Awesome Assassin & Head Honcho)
True Detective
Fabregas ($3300) - carrying Awesome Assassin & Head Honcho)
No Donuts, Pindari Express, Shes Gifted
Outside...
El Grand Senor ($2000) - carrying Awesome Assassin & (Club Edition, Roy Trease...Head Honcho ingredients)
Andos Mac, El Magnifico, Zipping Sullivan
It comes down to how serious you are about breeding the very best you can...as you can achieve the same from different levels of popularity and value! Its always the mix within that gives you your best chance at success!!
new kid on the block HSR https:/ CLICK HERE wld prob fit the above criteria too Darren
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 21 Jun 2021 04:22
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Proving to be very dominant genes Ryan!
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 12 Jul 2021 20:25
If youre truly serious about breeding the best you can. In turn having a great time in this game. You use the sire that can give you the most explosive mix. Just going to a Fernando and Barcia and hoping for the best is the biggest furphy! The carnage left is long and expensive in both these top studs.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 13 Jul 2021 02:31
If youre truly serious about breeding the best you can. In turn having a great time in this game. You use the sire that can give you the most explosive mix. Just going to a Fernando and Barcia and hoping for the best is the biggest furphy! The carnage left is long and expensive in both these top studs.
Didn't you use Fernando recently Darren?
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 13 Jul 2021 03:08
If youre truly serious about breeding the best you can. In turn having a great time in this game. You use the sire that can give you the most explosive mix. Just going to a Fernando and Barcia and hoping for the best is the biggest furphy! The carnage left is long and expensive in both these top studs.
Didn't you use Fernando recently Darren?
Do as I say, not as I so ;-)
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 13 Jul 2021 03:12
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Not yet Simon, she hasnt come in season. But, the post youve highlighted isnt about not using Fernando Bale. Rather, its dont use him for the sake of using him. When without the right match you are a million to one at getting anything other than country class from him and that goes for any sire. Its there for all to see in Fernando Bales complete offspring list. He sires like all studs do more duds than he does champs! The big question is which camp do you want to be in with him?
This topic hopefully shows someone the worth of putting the right mix together! Whether its commercial or non-commercial.
Brother Fox, Rapid Journey, Fernando Bale himself...their dams all bred to unfashionable sires and look at what was achieved!
Paul, thats hardly me bud. Ive already mentioned one in this topic...she just wont come in season as yet. And Ive mentioned another, but keep having the posts deleted. So Im damned if I do and damned if I dont! Im actually on the lookout for a Banjo Boy female to put to a non-commercial sire to replicate the pedigrees of Big Flood and Irish wonder dog Pestana.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 13 Jul 2021 03:20
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On the subject of "breeding inside and outside the square". Look at this fantastically bred and outstandingly performed bitch. She was bred both ways and the breeder managed to breed the dam line into oblivion in just one generation. It just goes to prove. You can espouse all the theories in the world. But don't underestimate the many other factors that go into the lottery that is greyhound breeding.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 13 Jul 2021 03:29
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I know, shes actually already been discussed in this topic way back. So, if people want to go searching or not no worries. But, she unfortunately was around when imports and outcross matings were only just taking off. There wasnt a lot of outcross choice!! My last mating was to a complete outcross sire and the dog produced was very fast - Droopys Fool. But, had to deal with injuries. MLadys Fool was inbred and crying out for outcross blood...however, as I said there wasnt a lot of outcross choice. She should have gone to outcross blood every time. Just born at the wrong time City Of Sydney dropped dead after racing and never got to breed her!
Then of course I took a brood in Fancy Blonde from the classified off Global Greyhounds after she failed in her first litter. Bred her to the unfashionable No Intent and produced Kalden Fury for approx $300K in pmoney. Then gave her back and they bred another dud litter from her afterwards. So, theres me practicing what I say!!
Frieda Las Vegas and now Merchant Navys going along nicely for me right this minute. He was very unlucky not to beat Jungle Deuce in the heats of the Flying Amy...being in considerably the worst part of the track!!! Cant keep a good man down Haha ;)
Nicholas Arena Australia (Verified User) Posts 233 Dogs 10 / Races 0 26 Jul 2021 23:10
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Late last year I came across an article written by David Brasch on the prepotency of Tangairn, when positioned to impact Dam lines. Tangairn's dam is Del Bairn Babe X Mandalas (Black Shiraz Dam Line) https:/ CLICK HERE In response I went looking for examples - the line that stood out is Mugavin's line; notably Born Lucky https:/ CLICK HERE because despite being line bred to Mandalas was not overly successful when compared to her Dam Magic Gairn - see the offspring chart on Born Luck's pedigree page - some pretty serious racers amongst them. Born Lucky was bred to Whisky Assassin throwing Born Princess https:/ CLICK HERE - again this was a pretty average litter. Born Princess had 20 starts over short courses - winning 7 races and banking $6,600. How many would breed with a bitch like this? From here it gets interesting (at least to me). Mugavin didn't give up on the line and bred Born Princess to Velocette https:/ CLICK HERE . Note the positioning of Tangairn/Del Bairn Babe and the tail line breeding to Val Matese . The litter's performance, which included Born Ali who as gone on to produce multiple group dogs who are notably strong 500 metre plus types https:/ CLICK HERE I believe this is Ryan's breeding to cornerstone dam theory - others will say it clever - others will say it is hocus pokus. Personally I believe it just makes a lot of sense. Just like the Wheelers, long term breeders like the Mugavins know the importance of refreshing their lines through both outcrossing and line breeding to dominant dams - for further evidence check out how Paul and Brendon are breeding too Allen Deed https:/ CLICK HERE BTW thanks for the article David - it lead me on a very interesting journey.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 27 Jul 2021 01:09
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Braschy is an incredible font of knowledge and the only breeding expert I would use. Decades of wonderful interviews with the sport's greats. A depth of knowledge only time, dedication and passion can provide. He and his brother are such incredible assets to the industry, we are lucky to have them on our side.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 27 Jul 2021 14:22
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Nicholas Arena wrote:
Just like the Wheelers, long term breeders like the Mugavins know the importance of refreshing their lines through....outcrossing
Its been mentioned plenty of times in this topic and weve all now had decades to watch Paul Wheeler show the importance of outcrossing. Theres no reason why you cant have first generation success with an outcross sire...you just need to know what youre looking for!
To most in this country Djays Octane is a failure, yet Wheeler bred a Group class stayer - https:/ CLICK HERE
I echoed Nick Savvas sentiments in another topic about the better you know how breeding works along with bloodlines being the way to successful breeding and no-one knows those two aspects better than Paul Wheeler. Hes a one stop shop for a wealth of knowledge...if youre good enough to decipher him!
P.s I wonder whether David still holds the same opinion today, when he claimed Sires were failures with an outcross dam sire? Worth Doing was the big debated one in the topic at the time!
The importance of outcross cant be overstated! Its a massive reason why I tried to purchase Nicki Fields before she ever won in town! The Tangairn dam line with the embedded outcross. Just as another brood I did manage to get hold of....
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 28 Jul 2021 11:26
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Taking it a step back from where you started your search Nicholas, the most influencing linebreeding intensity to my eye with Tangairn's litter https:/ CLICK HERE was the 100% primary linebreeding intensity in the x path to Our Cola between different individuals Chief Zephyr & https:/ CLICK HERE Oakley's Pal (illustrated using his sister West Gold). cheers.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 01 Sep 2021 22:14
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Mixing non-commercial sires Cosmic Chief and Flying Stanley
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Sep 2021 09:44
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So a pedigree can be both inside and outside the square, depending on whether the sire is commercial or not?
As an example if I use Zambora Brookie when he's cheap and unproven I'm outside the square. But once he's proven and $5500 I'm back in the square? Likewise what happens when I use the unfashionable new season sire ZB and breed an outside the square litter, only to have ZB become a top flight sire and the pups are now inside the square?
This is so confusing.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 04 Sep 2021 23:22
This topic is about putting the best mix together! Which can be done through commercial, but also non-commercial sires. Maybe a breeder or purchaser cant afford the price of some stud fees or pups? Hopefully, this topic gives some confidence, that regardless of price point and popularity, you can still achieve the same thing by having the same mix!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 05 Sep 2021 11:32
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OK perfect. So tell us what sire is good value and a future top sire who is now a bargain price.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1954 Dogs 56 / Races 2 05 Sep 2021 12:04
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Paul Dicks wrote:
OK perfect. So tell us what sire is good value and a future top sire who is now a bargain price.
I know you weren't asking me and I doubt he'll get enough matings to prove himself, but if Aston Dee Bee is headed for massive things at stud and Aston Rupee people are busting to use at stud already, why not Aston Duke? He has the bloodlines to produce and still wasn't a slouch on the track
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 05 Sep 2021 12:45
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That's interesting Matt. Be interesting to see what happens with his close relatives. I admire people who put it out there and don't dwell on the 1 half decent pup they bred 2 decades ago or talk about the brood bitch they supposedly tried to purchase that has gone onto success.
I'll be honest with you, but I reckon ADB is overpriced and overrated. Admittedly I'm talking through my pocket. His percentages are good, but he hasn't produced that real star just yet. Maybe his second wave of progeny will prove me wrong.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 05 Sep 2021 22:08
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Matt Griffiths wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
OK perfect. So tell us what sire is good value and a future top sire who is now a bargain price.
I know you weren't asking me and I doubt he'll get enough matings to prove himself, but if Aston Dee Bee is headed for massive things at stud and Aston Rupee people are busting to use at stud already, why not Aston Duke? He has the bloodlines to produce and still wasn't a slouch on the track
Exactly, because its all about the mix of bloodlines.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
