The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 08 Jun 2023 09:31
(3)
(0)
Sorry Alan , didnt realise this was a happy and positive things only thread , ya baby !
18 months ago weve been informed about a super sire and reported weekly on every win
Someone asks about him and his potential brood and anyone elses thoughts . I suggested a sire thats worked really well to his linebred brood , and made caution would be best advised at this current point of being unproven on the aust stage or stock .
Then showed his first litter are out and stated their starts and results thus far , whats the problem Alan ? I didnt realise this thread was for this studs wins only ???
One rule for some hey and another for others is it ! Jealous over straws , are you 10 years old ? Or just plain simple bud !
Wake up to your selves and get real FFS
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 08 Jun 2023 10:19
(1)
(0)
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
As my mate used to say. "Let some other d!(%head prove them for you, before you waste your time and money on unproven sire". Regardless of whether it is a local or an import sire.
You might have to pay a bit more once they are proven. But you could have saved yourself many tens of thousands of dollars in the long run.
Thats not actually a guarantee that you will get anything decent from it
And what does the term 'proven' mean?
A winner at The Gardens in a maiden over 272m in 15.90 or Moree over 300m or 288m at Ipswich in 17.5?
A winner at Wenty in 30.60
The definition of proven is pretty loose?
Maybe the term proven should mean a Group 3 winner or at the very least a Group 3 finalist?
Or to give it value to apply to any greyhound that can run within 0.5 sec within a track record over 440m or more
Sone criteria needs to be set for the terminology
At least then it may mean something valuable...otherwise it is just another BS term to sell frozen semen or push an agenda to say something is better than what it actually is
At least Droopys Sydney, whichever way you want to look at it, has definitely got the runs on the board with season after season of GROUP WINNERS in Ireland and UK, which now is our next biggest greyhound region following the demise of the USA
This is one of your most obtuse and downright ridiculous posts ever Sandro. You know full well what "proven" means.
Alan Brazier United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 245 Dogs 38 / Races 10 08 Jun 2023 10:36
(0)
(0)
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Sorry Alan , didnt realise this was a happy and positive things only thread , ya baby !
18 months ago weve been informed about a super sire and reported weekly on every win
Someone asks about him and his potential brood and anyone elses thoughts . I suggested a sire thats worked really well to his linebred brood , and made caution would be best advised at this current point of being unproven on the aust stage or stock .
Then showed his first litter are out and stated their starts and results thus far , whats the problem Alan ? I didnt realise this thread was for this studs wins only ???
One rule for some hey and another for others is it ! Jealous over straws , are you 10 years old ? Or just plain simple bud !
Wake up to your selves and get real FFS
You are very childish my friend, don't get abusive keep your nonsenses to your self, sydney is one of the best stud dog`s to come along for some time, and he mixes very well with your blood lines Witch has ruined the Irish blood lines, witch back in the day was better than you could ever have over there mate.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 08 Jun 2023 10:45
(2)
(0)
Alan Brazier wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Sorry Alan , didnt realise this was a happy and positive things only thread , ya baby !
18 months ago weve been informed about a super sire and reported weekly on every win
Someone asks about him and his potential brood and anyone elses thoughts . I suggested a sire thats worked really well to his linebred brood , and made caution would be best advised at this current point of being unproven on the aust stage or stock .
Then showed his first litter are out and stated their starts and results thus far , whats the problem Alan ? I didnt realise this thread was for this studs wins only ???
One rule for some hey and another for others is it ! Jealous over straws , are you 10 years old ? Or just plain simple bud !
Wake up to your selves and get real FFS
You are very childish my friend, don't get abusive keep your nonsenses to your self, sydney is one of the best stud dog`s to come along for some time, and he mixes very well with your blood lines Witch has ruined the Irish blood lines, witch back in the day was better than you could ever have over there mate.
He is a great Irish sire with lots of Aussie blood? But Aussie blood ruined Irish lines? You couldn't get a more contradictory and illiterate statement.
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 08 Jun 2023 10:47
(2)
(0)
"and he mixes very well with your blood lines Witch has ruined the Irish blood lines, witch back in the day was better than you could ever have over there mate"
The above would have to be the most ridiculous statement i've read on GD for years !!!!
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 08 Jun 2023 10:57
(3)
(0)
Alan Brazier wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Sorry Alan , didnt realise this was a happy and positive things only thread , ya baby !
18 months ago weve been informed about a super sire and reported weekly on every win
Someone asks about him and his potential brood and anyone elses thoughts . I suggested a sire thats worked really well to his linebred brood , and made caution would be best advised at this current point of being unproven on the aust stage or stock .
Then showed his first litter are out and stated their starts and results thus far , whats the problem Alan ? I didnt realise this thread was for this studs wins only ???
One rule for some hey and another for others is it ! Jealous over straws , are you 10 years old ? Or just plain simple bud !
Wake up to your selves and get real FFS
You are very childish my friend, don't get abusive keep your nonsenses to your self, sydney is one of the best stud dog`s to come along for some time, and he mixes very well with your blood lines Witch has ruined the Irish blood lines, witch back in the day was better than you could ever have over there mate.
Im abusive , childish and full of nonsense hey al , and you come on here first and start with fairytales about naming me jealous ! Gunna give it al , shut up and take it !
Heres another new theory , Australia has ruined UK greyhounds ! Isnt it a shame when even the locals talk so low about their own breed
Your not simple , your an imbecile
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 08 Jun 2023 11:34
(2)
(0)
E
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
As my mate used to say. "Let some other d!(%head prove them for you, before you waste your time and money on unproven sire". Regardless of whether it is a local or an import sire.
You might have to pay a bit more once they are proven. But you could have saved yourself many tens of thousands of dollars in the long run.
Thats not actually a guarantee that you will get anything decent from it
And what does the term 'proven' mean?
A winner at The Gardens in a maiden over 272m in 15.90 or Moree over 300m or 288m at Ipswich in 17.5?
A winner at Wenty in 30.60
The definition of proven is pretty loose?
Maybe the term proven should mean a Group 3 winner or at the very least a Group 3 finalist?
Or to give it value to apply to any greyhound that can run within 0.5 sec within a track record over 440m or more
Sone criteria needs to be set for the terminology
At least then it may mean something valuable...otherwise it is just another BS term to sell frozen semen or push an agenda to say something is better than what it actually is
At least Droopys Sydney, whichever way you want to look at it, has definitely got the runs on the board with season after season of GROUP WINNERS in Ireland and UK, which now is our next biggest greyhound region following the demise of the USA
This is one of your most obtuse and downright ridiculous posts ever Sandro. You know full well what "proven" means.
Honestly Paul, what is ridiculous is thst you can't debate what your version of 'proven' is
And please don't tell me it's when a sire gets his first winnerin a 300m maiden race at Darwin
I know what it means to me, obviously a lot different to what it means to you
Let's leave it there
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 08 Jun 2023 13:17
(2)
(0)
It's a good point. Not singling out a dog, but is Catch The Thief considered proven because his first starter won or is it considered a promising start to what's hopefully a successful stud career? EXTERNAL LINK
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 08 Jun 2023 13:38
(1)
(0)
All said and done, all countries need outcross blood or in modern times, diversified blood to maintain a healthy breed. Thankfully, enough of us are willing to breed to them and at some point, the general public benefit from it, even if its via the likes of Bernardo and Aussie Infrared - carrying genes of the 3 major countries. From previous outcross breedings done by breeders.
Im excited to see what Sydney can do here in Australia. Because of what hes done in Ireland / UK. Hes been nothing short of phenomenal. Why we brought some out and have used it.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 08 Jun 2023 19:42
(1)
(0)
I think if you ask a stud master, a sire would be proven on the number of bitches he serves. Remember Hay Fergus, certainly well bred with a great dam line and did produce winners from the litters he had but has been used scarcely since but still has the potential to produce a champion but only if they get used. I have no connection with Cerguw Fergus and only using him as a good example. Cheers
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 08 Jun 2023 20:50
(0)
(0)
If you don't know what proven is by now you should give the game away. Because you are obviously deliberately playing the stupid card, I'll help you out. My criteria would be. After the sires first crop has hit the ground and have reached 3 years of age. His Greyhound Recorder Stats early percentages are around 25%, he is producing a good percentage of city winners and group runners. It's not rocket science and I know for certain you are fully aware of what "Proven" is.
Examples, Tommy Shelby and Shima Shine are very close to being "proven" of the current new crop of sires.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 08 Jun 2023 21:02
(1)
(0)
Paul Dicks wrote:
If you don't know what proven is by now you should give the game away. Because you are obviously deliberately playing the stupid card, I'll help you out. My criteria would be. After the sires first crop has hit the ground and have reached 3 years of age. His Greyhound Recorder Stats early percentages are around 25%, he is producing a good percentage of city winners and group runners. It's not rocket science and I know for certain you are fully aware of what "Proven" is.
Examples, Tommy Shelby and Shima Shine are very close to being "proven" of the current new crop of sires.
I don't need to give the game away
If thats your version of proven, then that's fine, you stick to it and I wish you the best of luck with it
My version of proven just adopts a higher standard than yours
PS last time I looked I couldn't find the what the definition of proven meant in greyhound racing because everyone who has greyhounds has their own version of it
You can insult me or call me stupid, but you know what, like it or not, what I am saying is the truth buddy, you've just gone and proven it for me ;-}
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 08 Jun 2023 22:44
(0)
(0)
I did said playing stupid. But now I'm starting to wonder ;)
I'll give you another example of a 'Proven" sire in Bernardo. Nothing better than a sire that PROVES himself a PROVEN SIRE of PROVEN PERFORMERS with results. Bernardo has PROVEN himself to be a great sire.
I hope Droopys Sydney can do likewise.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 08 Jun 2023 23:06
(3)
(0)
And of course the irony being, Fear Zafonic was a flop out here, except did nicely to this dam line and has on bred to click with KC and All. Yet, realistically Bernardo was a non-commercial sire to start off with.
You only need look at Baby Jaycee, to see Fear Zafonics influence in Bernardo. So the benefit of Fear Zafonic to the Australian breed? But lets bag Fear Zafonic at the time he was a sire.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 08 Jun 2023 23:55
(0)
(0)
Surely being considered a "good sire" doesn't extend to how often he appears in the subsequent generations of quality dogs?
I'd hazard a guess that Surf Queen and KC and All did the vast majority of the heavy lifting in Bernardo's pedigree? Personally I don't think Fear Zafonic was difference.
Likewise with Baby Jaycee it was the double cross of Premier Fantasy that is the strongest influence, not his son FZ.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Jun 2023 00:14
(2)
(0)
Its the carry through Fear Zafonic. You cant have Baby Jaycee without Fear Zafonic. Understanding the importance of diversity of bloodlines to the breed overall, is the utmost importance.
Youre now seeing it with Larkhill Jo through Droopys Kewell - Dundee Osprey and Postman Pat. This same Larkhill Jo cross through Droopys Kewell, has long been dynamite in Ire/UK. Look at the elite impact its had here already.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 09 Jun 2023 00:42
(0)
(0)
In Paul's world, Fear Zafonic would be PROVEN, even though consensus he was considered to be not a top sire of group class dogs
But hey, he was PROVEN to throw winners.
However, Paul chooses to keep bagging a PROVEN sire. Therefore, on what criteria is he being bagged for?
Same as his favourite sire Djays Octane. He is PROVEN here, not considered successful here, but still PROVEN sire of winners and of stamina dogs
However, in the USA he was a PROVEN sire of Grade AA and Stake class greyhounds
Droopys Sydney, PROVEN sire of top class Group winning greyhounds in Ireland and the UK
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Jun 2023 04:26
(0)
(0)
Proven is just a state of mind Sandro. Because, what does it really give a breeder or purchaser - even with Pauls mention of Tommy and Shima?
In reality, look at the stats for all comers, this collective of proven, only gives a few more warm and fuzzies as you live the dream watching them run around the paddock. The odds are stacked against you regardless of proven or unproven.
Im sticking to matching bloodlines, whether proven or unproven. Its your best chance at beating the odds!
P.s even Djays Octane got Group winners and G1 finalists in Oz, when he was bred the right way!
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 09 Jun 2023 05:18
(1)
(0)
Darren Leeson wrote:
And of course the irony being, Fear Zafonic was a flop out here, except did nicely to this dam line and has on bred to click with KC and All. Yet, realistically Bernardo was a non-commercial sire to start off with.
You only need look at Baby Jaycee, to see Fear Zafonics influence in Bernardo. So the benefit of Fear Zafonic to the Australian breed? But lets bag Fear Zafonic at the time he was a sire.
Fear Zafonic was great for chase, but was known for making his pups a little bit too full on if anything. Mix it with KC and All blood though and it's worked out to be a masterstroke
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 09 Jun 2023 06:02
(0)
(0)
Sandro Bechini wrote:
In Paul's world, Fear Zafonic would be PROVEN, even though consensus he was considered to be not a top sire of group class dogs
But hey, he was PROVEN to throw winners.
However, Paul chooses to keep bagging a PROVEN sire. Therefore, on what criteria is he being bagged for?
Same as his favourite sire Djays Octane. He is PROVEN here, not considered successful here, but still PROVEN sire of winners and of stamina dogs
However, in the USA he was a PROVEN sire of Grade AA and Stake class greyhounds
Droopys Sydney, PROVEN sire of top class Group winning greyhounds in Ireland and the UK
The percentages for both the dogs you've mentioned were very ordinary indeed. Their City winner ratio too was abysmal also. I'm struggling to think of many Group class dogs either. They were certainly PROVEN, PROVEN to be dud sires.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
