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Do you have questions about breeding theories? Or do you need tips on how to rear your pups?
Breeders Opinions
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 05:02
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G'day All,
A bit of late workday procrastination getting to me here, but I've taken a serious interest in the breeding side of our great sport lately.
I wanted to try and learn from what appears to be a relatively knowledgeable forum.
I'll use the breeding of a pup I'm in with mates as an example.
https:/ CLICK HERE Now for me, with a relatively low base of knowledge on this side, I am absolutely mystified by half of these numbers.
It would appear she has a lot of knocka norris in her, which sounds painful, but that's all an uneducated mind like mine can surmise from these charts.
I suppose my question would be, if i found myself in possession of a broody or stud (Not my intention at all and purely hypothetical), what might i see in a test mating, that might make me pull the trigger on a mating?
Or, if that's not how you operate, what are you looking for in potential matings?
Any input is massively appreciated, I'm just here to learn.
Cheers
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 06:35
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James Shepherd wrote:
......what are you looking for in potential matings?
Hi James,
There are a no of things to look for but The two major steps I'd need are:
(i) I look for an absolute champion (if possible) that a damline has thrown and then try to linebreed it's sire through different individuals at a very high percentage within 5 generations. A mouthful I know, but if you can understand that.....it's a great place to start when looking for a potential sire.
ps. Linebreeding isn't just duplicating the same dog either. It can be but it's usually a little more involved.
(ii)Then look for a cornerstone brood when linebreeding in the x path, once again through different individuals.
I find combining both of these points is the best way to create vigour within a pedigree. g/l.
Tony Digiorgio Australia (Verified User) Posts 1008 Dogs 25 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 08:01
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Ryan,
What is your opinion of the pup James is involved in?
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 11:51
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I don't have one Tony.
Can't really rely on the primary x path but it may be backed up by a decent cornerstone brood such as Cursorial or even Elsie Moss.
As for the linebreeding through damlines [point (i) above], it wld take me 3-4 hrs to match it all up, this damline having thrown so many top dogs.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 27 Apr 2022 21:49
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As good as Greyhound-Data is and not to denigrate its awesome source of data, but other than giving you a starting template, the colours and percentages in Testmatings are a furphy! Ive never paid attention to any of it. Its not even close to being the answer to successful breeding!!
Starting off with a low knowledge base, your best friend is a good dose of commonsense. And the mating youve put up is a sound one...in that commonsense would tell you close inbreeding is a risky proposition, but to temperate it, by doing it with an outcross brood, dilutes the inbred nature of the mating. As does using a sire also carrying a portion of outcross. Giving you your best chance of reinforcing the ingredients that produced Dont Knocka Him from the 3x3 cross of Knocka Norris.
Our greatest breeder Paul Wheeler should be your starting point of hours/years of dedication and study of pedigrees. Like everywhere in life, you get out of it, what you put into it. I think back to where it all started for me and one all-nighter sticks in my mind. I started dissecting pedigrees after work one Friday evening and before I knew it, the sun was coming up and it was 6.30am Saturday morning...back in my being single days LOL.
Pedigrees to start you off on - Rufus Bale, Odious & Gails Beauty
One thing Im big on is subtlety of pedigree...why didnt Brother Fox work with National Lass, the way his sons did......
You never stop learning and working things out. My current study...why didnt Superior Product work with Shez Impetuous, the way Aston Dee Bee did to produce current headliner Shes A Pearl...when on face value, it arguably should have. Again, subtlety of pedigree, is the answer I comeback to...
Best of luck, getting a result in this game, from all your efforts is incredibly self-satisfying!!
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 22:23
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Thanks mate, really genuinely appreciate your input here.
I'm a loooong way from considering making a move myself, but that gives me a base to work from!
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 Apr 2022 22:48
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Thanks for that Darren!
I've been reading everything from PAW that i can find, it sounds so natural and simple coming from him at times.
Bloody fascinating this stuff
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 01:09
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For me the starting point is first learn the main strains of Temlee and Waverley Supreme You need to study separately the following of the best potent sires
Aussie Colonial - Benjamin John Irish / UK imports - Which Chariot Tivoli Dreamer Waverley Supreme USA Sandman - Tell you Why
Once you learn the above then you will have a better understanding of how to read pedigrees of today
Sent you a PM if you wish to know more
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 01:45
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https:/ CLICK HERE 2x3 Knocka Norris, double maternal 25% blood quota. All good in my opinion Only maybe negative is HOS unproven sire Good luck James
Michael Bowerman Australia (Verified User) Posts 4614 Dogs 11 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 02:30
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James Shepherd wrote:
G'day All,
A bit of late workday procrastination getting to me here, but I've taken a serious interest in the breeding side of our great sport lately.
I wanted to try and learn from what appears to be a relatively knowledgeable forum.
I'll use the breeding of a pup I'm in with mates as an example.
https:/ CLICK HERE Now for me, with a relatively low base of knowledge on this side, I am absolutely mystified by half of these numbers.
It would appear she has a lot of knocka norris in her, which sounds painful, but that's all an uneducated mind like mine can surmise from these charts.
I suppose my question would be, if i found myself in possession of a broody or stud (Not my intention at all and purely hypothetical), what might i see in a test mating, that might make me pull the trigger on a mating?
Or, if that's not how you operate, what are you looking for in potential matings?
Any input is massively appreciated, I'm just here to learn.
Cheers
james data has a lot of stud dogs on site witch shows what boold line works well with bithes blood line,
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 02:32
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Hey Mate,
Sure does, was more about me having an idea of what im looking at.
Cheers
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 02:48
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James Shepherd wrote:
I've been reading everything from PAW that i can find, it sounds so natural and simple coming from him at times.
If you look at the pedigrees of Ashom Bale https:/ CLICK HERE and Dynabolt https:/ CLICK HERE James, may give you an idea . g/l.
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 05:32
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So heres my un-eductaed assessment of Dyna Bolt from the examples you've provided. Chief Havoc, Could be Worse, Brenda Grey and Grand Champion are our major players here? Potentially Bella's Prince, but im thinking 6 generations back might be a long way to be looking?
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5957 Dogs 8 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 06:03
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You pretty much nailed it James......CBW was through the same individual though in TGC and the reason CBW comes up in a darker shade of red.
ps. hope you bought a bitch ;)
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Apr 2022 21:45
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Thanks mate, you've been a massive help!
James Shepherd Australia (Verified User) Posts 30 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 May 2022 03:23
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Whelp, the first of the litter HOS x Neytiri Queen bitch went around last night at angle park. Exciting signs
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 May 2022 08:19
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Just keep spending your spare time studying the pedigrees of the real good racers that are going around etc & looking for familiarities in the way their pedigrees are assembled & the way their ancestors are positioned in the bloodlines. After a while you will come to notice certain trends becoming evident. That's a basic way to look at it James , just stick with it ,keep studying & learning as you go. Just remember breeding, studying pedigrees etc etc is not an exact science & even the best can get it wrong. Regards.
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15480 Dogs 0 / Races 1 30 May 2022 04:59
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Excellent run for a first starter.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 30 May 2022 08:29
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Starting off with a low knowledge base, your best friend is a good dose of commonsense. And the mating youve put up is a sound one...in that commonsense would tell you close inbreeding is a risky proposition, but to temperate it, by doing it with an outcross brood, dilutes the inbred nature of the mating. As does using a sire also carrying a portion of outcross. Giving you your best chance of reinforcing the ingredients that produced Dont Knocka Him from the 3x3 cross of Knocka Norris.
James Shepherd wrote:
Whelp, the first of the litter HOS x Neytiri Queen bitch went around last night at angle park. Exciting signs
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
