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Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 10 Mar 2023 23:10
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Mark, we are doing No Easy Beat to Hopeful Lash the minute she comes on. Both unproven. Darren puts his money where his mouth is and we will live and die by the results.
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 10 Mar 2023 23:20
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The question was regarding previous litters bred and raced !
Nothing ventured nothing gained, good luck with it !
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Mar 2023 00:34
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I realise that, but in part, it does help to show Darrens attitude to breeding.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Mar 2023 01:25
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Mark, Silver Saul x MLadys Fool - Feisty Talent was definitely a city class bitch. But, as mentioned, a real waiter, not a great chaser. No surprise to me she produced fast, but injury prone Feisty Fourche, off my recommendation to Scott McGuiness. I was only looking to lease her out for a litter, but fair play to Scott. He wanted her signed over to him and I relented. Shes probably the brood that got away.
The rest of the Silver Saul x MLadys Fool litter were surprisingly short coursers, but still collected a total of $50K. So, the litter turned a profit.
Now over to you - youve bred a few litters lately. I remember this one - EXTERNAL LINK
Did you breed the Group 1 finalist as well or just the Pindari Express litter?
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Mar 2023 01:29
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Scott Jackson wrote:
Mark, we are doing No Easy Beat to Hopeful Lash the minute she comes on. Both unproven. Darren puts his money where his mouth is and we will live and die by the results.
Well said mate and weve discussed that mating in detail and you well and truly have given it the tick based off the dogs racing ability! As you called it, No Easy Beat, has x-factor! Something youre big on with sire choices!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 11 Mar 2023 01:36
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Scott Jackson wrote:
Mark, we are doing No Easy Beat to Hopeful Lash the minute she comes on. Both unproven. Darren puts his money where his mouth is and we will live and die by the results.
What's the bet that Hopeful Lash out produces Frieda Las Vegas?
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 11 Mar 2023 03:11
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Mark, Silver Saul x MLadys Fool - Feisty Talent was definitely a city class bitch. But, as mentioned, a real waiter, not a great chaser. No surprise to me she produced fast, but injury prone Feisty Fourche, off my recommendation to Scott McGuiness. I was only looking to lease her out for a litter, but fair play to Scott. He wanted her signed over to him and I relented. Shes probably the brood that got away.
The rest of the Silver Saul x MLadys Fool litter were surprisingly short coursers, but still collected a total of $50K. So, the litter turned a profit.
Now over to you - youve bred a few litters lately. I remember this one - EXTERNAL LINK
Did you breed the Group 1 finalist as well or just the Pindari Express litter?
Dusty x Kinloch Brae Litter i did not breed !
I bred 3 litters 2 by proven sires both failed although 1 litter only had 1 pup ! 1 by Unproven sire that has imo been a FLOP !
But no doubt Darren you already knew that ROFLMAO !
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Mar 2023 07:51
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:
Mark, we are doing No Easy Beat to Hopeful Lash the minute she comes on. Both unproven. Darren puts his money where his mouth is and we will live and die by the results.
What's the bet that Hopeful Lash out produces Frieda Las Vegas?
Paul, its entirely possible. We will have a good gauge as both have litters to Droopys Sydney.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 11 Mar 2023 09:54
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Mark Staines wrote:
Spot on !
It's not all in the Dam never has been !
Never will be !
Hey Mark, what I meant when starting this post was that regardless of what sire you go to, if the brood doesnt have the right make up to produce quality offspring she never will. The ones that do produce seem to do it with multiple sires. So for me its about finding/stumbling on a producing brood. The chosen sire will obviously contribute and Im more interested in their dam line. JMO. Cheers
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 11 Mar 2023 10:12
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Zoom Top a flop as a brood yet her sister Busy's Charm from 1 litter of 3 pups produced the very good Busy's Chief a Group 1 winner and successful Sire !
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Mar 2023 10:20
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A feature race winner and 11 city wins, in fast time. Is still superior to most pups bred - https:/ CLICK HERE
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 11 Mar 2023 10:43
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One hot day doesn't make it Summer ! For a Bitch that was a freak on the track ZT was a flop in the breeding barn !
Top Sires and Dams have the ability to produce offspring equal or better than they were IMO !
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Mar 2023 11:18
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Please, everyone of us would have loved to have bred Zooms Wealth. Why cant Zoom Top be given credit for producing an elite bitch in Zooms Wealth?
Maybe Hec gets to join us all in breeding a lesser litter? But, he didnt do it using Benjamin John over Zoom Top!
Mark Staines Australia (Verified User) Posts 4499 Dogs 70 / Races 14 11 Mar 2023 11:29
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Maybe i expect to much from champion bitches ?
Miata 10 Track Records, pups from first litter sold for 30k each !
Pups won races but did any of them have anywhere near her ability ?
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Mar 2023 19:44
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Yes, Im sure with the benefit of hindsight wed all do plenty of things differently, but thats life. Thats why breeders doing the job here and now are obviously a step ahead of most.
Tony Gallagher Australia (Team Member) Posts 5918 Dogs 12963 / Races 40209 12 Mar 2023 01:44
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Hi Scott, I don't think so. Yes, we may think we know more about genetics, but do we? Certain breeders have excelled in every country that races greyhounds. Liam Dowling from Ireland, Nick Saava from the UK, Allen Wheeler Australia and the list goes on.
These breeders dominated in their own countries and the one thing they had in common is that they developed a strong bitch line. What I consider a strong bitch line is a bitch that will throw champions or above average dogs generation after generation. These bitches would throw winners if they were mated to Labradors.
So to say breeders "breeders doing the job here and now are obviously a step ahead of most" is not correct. Is it not true that today we have certain breeders that have a strong bitch line and continue to dominate?
The statement that Zoom Top failed as a brood is correct. All the breeding experts on GD that I read about put far too much emphasis on the stud dog and nowhere near enough emphasis on the bitch. Maybe there is a reason for this, and that reason is they get paid to advise and the majority with give a list of 6 stud dogs now the owner will pick one on of the dogs and if the pups are champions the expert will take the credit, if they do not turn out the expert can say ah, I said to go to such and such.
I know this will not be a popular post and for new people in the sport breeding experts can be a big help, but what I do not like is saying thing about what they should of done with the wisdom of hindsight. Each and every person that breeds a litter does their best and backs there judgement with their hard earned money. These people should be congratulated for keeping the sport alive and not criticised because someone believes they chose the wrong sire.
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 12 Mar 2023 03:48
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Tony, there is no question at all every top breeder has a strong damline, and they maintain it. Not easy to do. Think all breeders use a little hindsight or maybe history is a more accurate term, as we all look for proven nicks etc etc It helps, but not a single thing is guaranteed when breeding, thats the only certainty lol
Tony Gallagher Australia (Team Member) Posts 5918 Dogs 12963 / Races 40209 12 Mar 2023 04:01
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LOL Scott, that certainly is for sure. I think that when we breed a litter and spend our money, we are buying into a dream of having champions and until the pups race the dream lives on. To have a dream like this is worth any amount of money we have spent. I remember the first pup I had, when it won its maiden race I was on top of the world and that feeling is still with me today.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 12 Mar 2023 04:52
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Hi Ryan
That's a mating that not many would have ventured into to buy a pup, even though I don't mind Dyna Villa myself, so kudos to you
I think you are right in many ways and that is to aim to produce litters of competitive dogs, with prizemoney in shorter and non-city races being so good these days you can still at least not have a complete disaster unless the pups are non-chasers and/or deathly slow
Regardless of your theory bias if you are able to put the odds in your favour in a mating and get over 80% of the pups named and winning then as a breeder you have done a pretty reasonable job
I personally like to breed with a bitch that has a fair share of talent and good chasing traits, preferably should run 500m right out. I generally can't abide bitches that are non-chasers that give up when they get a bump.
She doesn't have to be a genuine city winner, that helps to sell pups, however where is a choice , say if a bitch fluked a Wenty win in 30.60 on a Saturday night vs her sister who ran 29.80 on a Wednesday night and through whatever circumstances, couldn't win a genuine city class race, I know which one I would be defaulting to....
Thx Sandro.
Re racetrack performance. Some people have the knack of choosing the right brood don't they. I personally don't think racetrack performance means anything when it comes to which bitch in a litter throws the fast pups. There's just too many examples of bitches with little to no racetrack ability throwing absolute quality or being involved with damlines that do.
Of course if you are looking to sell pups, fast bitches no doubt will be a huge influence, however from a purist breeding perspective, it really shldn't be. jmo.
ps. good to see that good bitch of yours going on with it last week. cheers.
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 308 Dogs 0 / Races 0 12 Mar 2023 08:24
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Tony Gallagher wrote:
LOL Scott, that certainly is for sure. I think that when we breed a litter and spend our money, we are buying into a dream of having champions and until the pups race the dream lives on. To have a dream like this is worth any amount of money we have spent. I remember the first pup I had, when it won its maiden race I was on top of the world and that feeling is still with me today.
Winning a $100.00 maiden at Appin to having such a great run with Frieda and a few others has been a long ride, and Im hoping it continues. Plenty of pups on the ground so we have a few tickets, thats for sure lol Still a great industry filled with great people, and still the best breed of dog to be involved with.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
