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Hello everyone This is my first post :) I am seeking some help with a 2 yr old bitch I trialed her in mid January and 24hrs later she was drinking alot of water and cramping, pain when palpating the kidneys.Greyhound vet diagnosed a Urinary infection and we went home with antibiotics. The dog got worse overnight and we went back and she went on the drip for a couple of days. Acidosis was mentioned but weight loss was minimal. She rested for the next few weeks but was still drinking alot of water and had some other issues like soft stools and eating grass. Went back to vet. Still has Urinary infection, so we tried a new antibiotic. 2 weeks later, back to vet. Still has the infection. So we try a 3rd antibiotic. This one worked!! No infection. By this stage it is late March. But the dog is still drinking alot of water. Vet runs blood tests. No good. Permanent kidney damage. Pet status only. I trust the vet but wondering if anyone has seen this thing turn around?? The dog looks great, no muscle loss or tenderness around kidneys . Heaps of energy. Doing zoomies in a small yard. Eating and sleeping well, stools look better. Just still drinking a bit too much. Any ideas?? All help appreciated.
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15483 Dogs 0 / Races 1 04 Apr 2023 09:10
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Hi Brent, petz park have a good product. Kidney and unirary.tonic about $30 odd. Do a Google search, we use some of their products.would suggest a good course of probiotics also . Cheers Jack. .
Thanks Paul. She certainly wins the race to the couch at the moment. :) Have you seen a dog bounce back from this sort of thing?
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 04 Apr 2023 09:55
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Sorry mate the news isn't good. I wish I could be more positive. They are never quite the same again. It can almost be cruel to run them. I've seen them tie up and collapse on the track. I'd take the vets advice to be honest, champ.
I'm no expert though and haven't trained for a decade now. Maybe there's something new out there. If someone has a solution, go for it.
Hi mate Yep she won't be running unless she is up to scratch. So i guess im wondering is a blood test more important than how she appears and her energy levels and all the physical signs? I'm getting the impression that's the case. Because she is absolutley full of beans and looks great.
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 04 Apr 2023 10:19
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Brent Dunlop wrote:
Hello everyone This is my first post :) I am seeking some help with a 2 yr old bitch I trialed her in mid January and 24hrs later she was drinking alot of water and cramping, pain when palpating the kidneys.Greyhound vet diagnosed a Urinary infection and we went home with antibiotics. The dog got worse overnight and we went back and she went on the drip for a couple of days. Acidosis was mentioned but weight loss was minimal. She rested for the next few weeks but was still drinking alot of water and had some other issues like soft stools and eating grass. Went back to vet. Still has Urinary infection, so we tried a new antibiotic. 2 weeks later, back to vet. Still has the infection. So we try a 3rd antibiotic. This one worked!! No infection. By this stage it is late March. But the dog is still drinking alot of water. Vet runs blood tests. No good. Permanent kidney damage. Pet status only. I trust the vet but wondering if anyone has seen this thing turn around?? The dog looks great, no muscle loss or tenderness around kidneys . Heaps of energy. Doing zoomies in a small yard. Eating and sleeping well, stools look better. Just still drinking a bit too much. Any ideas?? All help appreciated.
Hi Robynne After the trial she was searching for water constantly. During the 3 courses of antibiotics she was doing 2-3 litres a day and couldn't control her bladder at times. Now she is down to around 1 - 1.25 litres,but it's at normal intervals. For example she can go all night without a drink or wee and she just has a few good laps of water after food and a zoomie. This is over a full 24hrs not just morning- night. Its more than she used to drink but it has definitely improved. Ps. She slams her nose into the bowl as well so alot goes on the ground haha.
Hi Carole The Vet gave me chinese black balls called Liu Wei Di Huang Wan. Exercise has been minimal. She rested for all of Jan and Feb while on the antibiotics. Now she just gets a walk daily and she has started tearing around our small backyard again every few days. Lots of energy. Since the most recent tests i have done the following to try and help her kidneys. *Stopped giving her Orabolin season control *Low protein , low salt diet *Milk Thistle *Calcium and Vitamin D3 *Fish oil. *Giving her filtered water I don't use any electrolytes or powders at the moment whilst she is just in pet mode. And i only just starting this a few days ago. I just give them to her after a meal. Thanks for helping :)
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 04 Apr 2023 19:09
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Brent Dunlop wrote:
Hi Robynne After the trial she was searching for water constantly. During the 3 courses of antibiotics she was doing 2-3 litres a day and couldn't control her bladder at times. Now she is down to around 1 - 1.25 litres,but it's at normal intervals. For example she can go all night without a drink or wee and she just has a few good laps of water after food and a zoomie. This is over a full 24hrs not just morning- night. Its more than she used to drink but it has definitely improved. Ps. She slams her nose into the bowl as well so alot goes on the ground haha.
I've just been through this with a dog , it took a good 10-12 weeks but his kidney values are now acceptable. Don't stop her drinking because she's trying to heal her kidneys by constant flushing but make sure she's getting loads of Vytrate and ORAL VAM Paste. You just have to put up with the wee unfortunately
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 04 Apr 2023 19:44
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Hey Brent, it sounds like youre doing everything right. You will need another blood test after a months treatment to see where shes at. When you had her blood done that found the infection was her creatinine levels high as well, particularly the creatinine kinase. These are elevated after exercise or when there is some muscle damage or injury. Normally they go back to their correct range after a few days providing the kidneys are functioning properly. Marathon runners creatinine kinase goes through the roof after an event and generally return to normal after approximately twelve days. You can lower creatinine kinase levels naturally, as you have done by reducing the protein levels and replacing it with fibre or carbs. Cooked meat is worse and produces higher levels of creatinine. Cranberry juice added to the meal can be of benefit also. The issue will be that the kidneys may cope whilst in pet mode but may not be able to cope after trialling or racing as the creatinine kinase is filtered through the kidneys and passed in the urine.. The Chinese kidney pills will definitely help and Id suggest she stays on them for kidney support for ever. You can buy Chinese kidney pills and other kidney supports from your chemist or health store. Not sure if they can be turned around as it depends on the amount of kidney damage from the start. If you thought she had some ability then it may be worth the effort but would only race short course and sparingly whilst closely monitoring her fluid intake etc and possibly another blood test six to seven days after her run to see if the creatinine kinase levels have returned to normal which should show how effective her kidneys are working. I say short course racing for obvious reasons and they dont usually need to much work or trials in between races being kept fresh and raced off the lead . Hope this helps. Cheers
Thanks Michael, CK levels and creatinine were sky high when she was on the drip and had the infection. CK was back to normal the next test but creatinine has stayed high each time we tested, it has come down now but not enough. I was feeding her heaps of cooked meat at the start because i was worried she would lose alot of weight so i was encouraging her to eat by cooking it. Now its small portions of raw meat that i soak in water first. Gotta try something right.. Do you think the Orabolin could have been making the kidneys job harder?
michael worth wrote:
Hey Brent, it sounds like youre doing everything right. You will need another blood test after a months treatment to see where shes at. When you had her blood done that found the infection was her creatinine levels high as well, particularly the creatinine kinase. These are elevated after exercise or when there is some muscle damage or injury. Normally they go back to their correct range after a few days providing the kidneys are functioning properly. Marathon runners creatinine kinase goes through the roof after an event and generally return to normal after approximately twelve days. You can lower creatinine kinase levels naturally, as you have done by reducing the protein levels and replacing it with fibre or carbs. Cooked meat is worse and produces higher levels of creatinine. Cranberry juice added to the meal can be of benefit also. The issue will be that the kidneys may cope whilst in pet mode but may not be able to cope after trialling or racing as the creatinine kinase is filtered through the kidneys and passed in the urine.. The Chinese kidney pills will definitely help and Id suggest she stays on them for kidney support for ever. You can buy Chinese kidney pills and other kidney supports from your chemist or health store. Not sure if they can be turned around as it depends on the amount of kidney damage from the start. If you thought she had some ability then it may be worth the effort but would only race short course and sparingly whilst closely monitoring her fluid intake etc and possibly another blood test six to seven days after her run to see if the creatinine kinase levels have returned to normal which should show how effective her kidneys are working. I say short course racing for obvious reasons and they dont usually need to much work or trials in between races being kept fresh and raced off the lead . Hope this helps. Cheers
Peter Bryce Australia (Verified User) Posts 706 Dogs 0 / Races 0 05 Apr 2023 00:35
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Hello Brett Do some research on Thyroid issues Excess urinating, unexplained Weight gain are just a couple of signs I have posted Thyroid posts in the forum, Worth a read. Feel free to PM me
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 05 Apr 2023 01:08
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Brent Dunlop wrote:
Thanks Michael, CK levels and creatinine were sky high when she was on the drip and had the infection. CK was back to normal the next test but creatinine has stayed high each time we tested, it has come down now but not enough. I was feeding her heaps of cooked meat at the start because i was worried she would lose alot of weight so i was encouraging her to eat by cooking it. Now its small portions of raw meat that i soak in water first. Gotta try something right.. Do you think the Orabolin could have been making the kidneys job harder?
michael worth wrote:
Hey Brent, it sounds like youre doing everything right. You will need another blood test after a months treatment to see where shes at. When you had her blood done that found the infection was her creatinine levels high as well, particularly the creatinine kinase. These are elevated after exercise or when there is some muscle damage or injury. Normally they go back to their correct range after a few days providing the kidneys are functioning properly. Marathon runners creatinine kinase goes through the roof after an event and generally return to normal after approximately twelve days. You can lower creatinine kinase levels naturally, as you have done by reducing the protein levels and replacing it with fibre or carbs. Cooked meat is worse and produces higher levels of creatinine. Cranberry juice added to the meal can be of benefit also. The issue will be that the kidneys may cope whilst in pet mode but may not be able to cope after trialling or racing as the creatinine kinase is filtered through the kidneys and passed in the urine.. The Chinese kidney pills will definitely help and Id suggest she stays on them for kidney support for ever. You can buy Chinese kidney pills and other kidney supports from your chemist or health store. Not sure if they can be turned around as it depends on the amount of kidney damage from the start. If you thought she had some ability then it may be worth the effort but would only race short course and sparingly whilst closely monitoring her fluid intake etc and possibly another blood test six to seven days after her run to see if the creatinine kinase levels have returned to normal which should show how effective her kidneys are working. I say short course racing for obvious reasons and they dont usually need to much work or trials in between races being kept fresh and raced off the lead . Hope this helps. Cheers
Not sure about Orabolin but I think you did the right thing by taking her off them for the moment. Will possibly give you more accurate results when testing. Many trainers are now using Primulet N instead of Orabolin which Ive heard is better for the bitch but havent had enough experience with it yet to make an informed decision which is better. You can google both products for further information. You need a script from a vet to purchase Primulet N from your chemist. Cheers
Thanks Robynne Just wondering How bad were the blood levels to start with and what did you get them down to?
Robynne Black wrote:
Brent Dunlop wrote:
Hi Robynne After the trial she was searching for water constantly. During the 3 courses of antibiotics she was doing 2-3 litres a day and couldn't control her bladder at times. Now she is down to around 1 - 1.25 litres,but it's at normal intervals. For example she can go all night without a drink or wee and she just has a few good laps of water after food and a zoomie. This is over a full 24hrs not just morning- night. Its more than she used to drink but it has definitely improved. Ps. She slams her nose into the bowl as well so alot goes on the ground haha.
I've just been through this with a dog , it took a good 10-12 weeks but his kidney values are now acceptable. Don't stop her drinking because she's trying to heal her kidneys by constant flushing but make sure she's getting loads of Vytrate and ORAL VAM Paste. You just have to put up with the wee unfortunately
Hi Brent did you check her tonsils. I have a bitch here. After every trial she would drink serious water and pee everywhere. I got blood test done. Vet said she was dehydrated. I asked are you sure no infection, he said not. I got him to check tonsils and again said they were OK. I got the dehydration sorted out and galloped the bitch for 3/4 weeks everything was great so I took her to the track for a trial and back at the same drinking alot and peeing everywhere. I booked her in to get the tonsils out and she had her 1st trial back on Monday and no drinking and no peeing. It really made a job of her.
Do you have questions regarding the health of your greyhound? Do you need tips what you should feed your dog?
