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Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 01 Nov 2021 13:37
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To make matters worse, 3 of the Fernando Bale Topgun Stayers finalists don't have any testicles.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 01 Nov 2021 18:16
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Theres no doubt he is a pre potent sire with the ability to pass on his credentials. Undescended testicles have been a problem in pups for years but may becoming more prevalent. Its unfortunate the price of the sire doesnt give the everyday breeder a chance. If he was half the price he would still make the same money as he would get twice as many bitches. Even his pups have to be well priced to cover breeding costs again locking out the little guy. My biggest concern is our future breeding and are we breeding ourselves into a corner. With not only Fernando but an influx of American lines now showing in many of our stud dogs where to we go from here. I hope someone has some good old Aussie straws to re invigorate our own blood which I know is in some of the American chasers but a long way back. Or do we turn to Ireland now for some new blood. Maybe it is a good thing he is so dear or we might already be sitting in the corner. JMO. Cheers
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 01 Nov 2021 22:36
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michael worth wrote:
Theres no doubt he is a pre potent sire with the ability to pass on his credentials. Undescended testicles have been a problem in pups for years but may becoming more prevalent. Its unfortunate the price of the sire doesnt give the everyday breeder a chance. If he was half the price he would still make the same money as he would get twice as many bitches. Even his pups have to be well priced to cover breeding costs again locking out the little guy. My biggest concern is our future breeding and are we breeding ourselves into a corner.
None of these comments are remotely true.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 01 Nov 2021 23:45
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Them comments are 100% true. It costs the same to draw straws from Aston Duke ($440) as it does Fernando bale ($7700) and no hobbyist is going to pay $7700 for their broodies first litter no matter how good she was
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6019 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Nov 2021 00:13
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Matt Griffiths wrote:
Them comments are 100% true. It costs the same to draw straws from Aston Duke ($440) as it does Fernando bale ($7700) and no hobbyist is going to pay $7700 for their broodies first litter no matter how good she was
Then they will probably be "Hobbyists" for life! If they can't/wont do their homework. $7,700 is less than 2 City wins Matt.
Every Breeder should be looking to IMPROVE their stock with each & every litter they Breed.
Matt: The Hobbyist pays the same amount to rear, break-in, pre-train a litter from a $1k sire, as apposed to F/B at &7k.
The cost of drawing semen is totally irrelevant. Inseminations are the same whether the bitch is a Grp i winner or a maiden
If you can't afford F/B, there are plenty of options via Sons of F/B
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 02 Nov 2021 00:27
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So not even the part about him being a pre potent sire dicksy isnt that what your spruking dicksy. I believe his a great sire too dicksy but just saying that his earnings as a sire would be similar if he was $3000a service because more people would use him dicksy. Terry I can see what your saying but paying seven grand for a service as a hobbyist doesnt leave much to do the rearing and educating etc. I dont think you just have to go to Fernando to improve your breeding either as Im sure many breeders who have paid for nothing will tell you. A great sire indeed and if you can afford to use him then great but it doesnt mean youll get what your hoping for. Some chance you might but never guaranteed. Hope you can sort out whether you like him or not dicksy. Cheers
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6019 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Nov 2021 03:59
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michael worth wrote:
So not even the part about him being a pre potent sire dicksy isnt that what your spruking dicksy. I believe his a great sire too dicksy but just saying that his earnings as a sire would be similar if he was $3000a service because more people would use him dicksy. Terry I can see what your saying but paying seven grand for a service as a hobbyist doesnt leave much to do the rearing and educating etc. I dont think you just have to go to Fernando to improve your breeding either as Im sure many breeders who have paid for nothing will tell you. A great sire indeed and if you can afford to use him then great but it doesnt mean youll get what your hoping for. Some chance you might but never guaranteed. Hope you can sort out whether you like him or not dicksy. Cheers
Mick: It doesn't make any sense to have Stud dogs priced for "Hobbyist" then "Professional" breeders. The market dictates what price the sire is worth. More winners, then Group success the price goes up natural progression.
There is a plethora of good sires in the price range $1100 - $1650 to suit every Hobbyist. If you can't afford the very best of rearing your wasting your money any way. Whether you go to F/B or a Freebie.
BTW. Dixie is an unabashed Fernando fan.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 02 Nov 2021 11:04
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Saying they would get the same amount of stud fees is ludicrous. He serves his full book of 54 bitches a quarter. He earns $1.6 million a year, halve his stud fee and they get $800k it doesn't make sense.
Mitchell Tubinas Australia (Verified User) Posts 84 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Nov 2021 11:27
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Some people are only allowed to be hobbyists mate. When you can win every field trial you go in or go the best time up Appin midweek amongst the wenty dogs but raceday they run a second slower it shows how much you are up against it. You only know once you are in that position. The sport needs to go forward. Ill say now these controlling bodies dont allow certain people to win races. Dont ask for proof as you will be blown away and ill probably be shot dead.
Terry Jordan wrote:
Matt Griffiths wrote:
Them comments are 100% true. It costs the same to draw straws from Aston Duke ($440) as it does Fernando bale ($7700) and no hobbyist is going to pay $7700 for their broodies first litter no matter how good she was
Then they will probably be "Hobbyists" for life! If they can't/wont do their homework. $7,700 is less than 2 City wins Matt.
Every Breeder should be looking to IMPROVE their stock with each & every litter they Breed.
Matt: The Hobbyist pays the same amount to rear, break-in, pre-train a litter from a $1k sire, as apposed to F/B at &7k.
The cost of drawing semen is totally irrelevant. Inseminations are the same whether the bitch is a Grp i winner or a maiden
If you can't afford F/B, there are plenty of options via Sons of F/B
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 02 Nov 2021 18:06
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Fair enough dicksy but you said none of my comments were remotely true not even the bit where I said he is a pre potent sire so wasnt sure if you liked him or not. I must admit I did forget about the limit on services but whats wrong with $800k a year he did win a bit as a race dog didnt he. Like Terry said we should be trying to improve our breeding with every mating. I understand if a dogs won a heap of group races hes probably going to be a bit dearer. Personally I think its to attract the better bitches. If my bitch is a money spinner and won eight at wenty than I can probably afford him. But if shes won eight at Wauchope I probably cant go to the best and not have as much chance to improve the breed. My loss big mans gain. He does have his fair share of ordinary pups. Cheers
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 03 Nov 2021 02:31
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I didn't edit enough out of your original quote. It the second half that is complete BS.
Would you be happy to take half pay for good of the people? It all sounds like Utilitarianism, bordering on Communism. Do you want everyone to lower themselves to your level? Wouldn't it be better to raise yourself to meet theirs? You can blame the governing bodies as much as you like, for your woes or you can rise above your socialist dogma and do better.
Ray Brown Australia (Team Member) Posts 6226 Dogs 8 / Races 5 03 Nov 2021 19:36
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Just like a house on the beachfront being massively more expensive than one 50 kms out of town or even 4 streets away, it is all relevant to their status & value.
Dixie's analysis is spot on!
Ricky Hassall Australia (Verified User) Posts 227 Dogs 21 / Races 2 04 Nov 2021 00:10
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andrew varasdi wrote:
Agree Michael - plenty of others. Wonder if Ricky has a change of heart if he gets top class pups.
Andrew.......I would expect to get a good dog from my Fernando litter.
If I happen to get a Group 1 winner form him......I still will never use him again.
It would devastate me to breed a dog like POKE THE BEAR.......and not be able to stand him at stud.
There are plenty of other quality sire's available with no gentetic issues that would rule out a Stud career.
Ricky Hassall Australia (Verified User) Posts 227 Dogs 21 / Races 2 04 Nov 2021 00:17
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Mark.....I've used him twice....and I won't be using him again.
Poke The Bear won over $500,000 on the track. He would have been very well patronised at stud imho......and earn't well over a million.
If you aren't breeding to get a Group winning sire......what are you breeding for? Surely its what we all aim for?
I know he is a champion sire......I've already stated that.......but he does have a genetic defect.
Ricky Hassall Australia (Verified User) Posts 227 Dogs 21 / Races 2 04 Nov 2021 00:18
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You'd better read my post again Ronald.......
Ricky Hassall Australia (Verified User) Posts 227 Dogs 21 / Races 2 04 Nov 2021 00:22
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Paul Dicks wrote:
I don't know if non decended testicles is just a FB issue. I was talking to a mate with 3 male Zambora Brookie pups and they only have 3 testicles between them.
Very true Dixie.......Brockie has issues too. Once again a top shelf producer of some brilliant dogs. I've had one litter by him.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Nov 2021 02:41
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Once bitten twice shy.
I brought up many posts ago regarding Tangaloa had the big finger pointed for throwing genetic defects ? I attended a SA trainers course late 80s conducted by two greyhound vets and 12 students of which 11 were established trainers, except me. Smoko breaks conversation would go on. I recall a number of times the comments regarding Tangaloa throwing deformities. I reacted by ignoring, however I bred a litter to New Tears and got only by one ball dog. Is it Fernando sire or damline contributing to this genetic defect ? I guess we will never know ?
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Nov 2021 02:54
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Once bitten twice shy.
I brought up many posts ago regarding Tangaloa had the big finger pointed for throwing genetic defects ? I attended a SA trainers course late 80s conducted by two greyhound vets and 12 students of which 11 were established trainers, except me. Smoko breaks conversation would go on. I recall a number of times the comments regarding Tangaloa throwing deformities. I reacted by ignoring, however I bred a litter to New Tears and got only by one ball dog. Is it Fernando sire or damline contributing to this genetic defect ? I guess we will never know ?
I should have mentioned. The one nut pup i bred was fastest in litter
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 04 Nov 2021 03:12
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Maybe you should read my initial post again Dicksy before you slip in your own dribble. It was all opinions. I said it would be nice if he was cheaper. I understand why hes the price he is ,its not rocket science. Maybe you shouldnt go off half cocked dicksy. (Pardon the pun). LOL. And whats my level dicksy seeing you know me so well. Big comment to make dicksy but something Im starting to expect in your posts. Cheers
Ronald George Hunter Australia (Verified User) Posts 4319 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Nov 2021 05:29
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How can a sire with so many faults, have his progeny win over Seventy Seven million dollars in just fiver years of racing!
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
