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Respect your opinion Sandro but your working off a small sample size. Tritt tritt has had 1 go at 650m and broke a track record and his other start at the distance he suffered and injury bad enough to have him scratched from a group 1 final. I think you'll find he can burn the candle at both ends unlike the other two.
Actually I was talking about Quick Jagger, not Tritt Tritt
It's obvious he is going to be a 700m star as well
Mark Mihailovic Australia (Verified User) Posts 698 Dogs 1 / Races 0 18 Apr 2018 04:09
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With an once of luck Rippin sam will win for sure in that final. As I said I'm really looking forward to the next 12 months we have some super stayers on the way up and we should have some interesting battles. Rod as for Tornado Tears clearly his got a massive motor and MAYBE the best of all the up and coming stayers but he'll have to chase a bit harder early in his races when he comes up against dogs with a lot more ability than the ones he raced against last start.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 19 Apr 2018 23:24
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Wow! Lots of promise here.
Quick Jagger - so far has shown that 700 is a bit far for him. Tritt Tritt - very promising but unproven over 700. Rippin Sam - slow early, average times, seems unlikely to improve further but will be a more than useful stayer. Toranado Tears - brilliant but just starting off. Please wait.
Their opposition? Mostly very ordinary.
Mark, re "when he comes up against dogs with a lot more ability" - there are no such animals, mate, only ones with more experience but which cannot run time.
Rippin Sam - slow early, average times, seems unlikely to improve further but will be a more than useful stayer.
I am not sure what dog you are looking at, but I would suggest a trip to Spec Saver should be on the agenda
Mark Mihailovic Australia (Verified User) Posts 698 Dogs 1 / Races 0 20 Apr 2018 03:24
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Bruce Teague wrote:
Wow! Lots of promise here.
Quick Jagger - so far has shown that 700 is a bit far for him. Tritt Tritt - very promising but unproven over 700. Rippin Sam - slow early, average times, seems unlikely to improve further but will be a more than useful stayer. Toranado Tears - brilliant but just starting off. Please wait.
Their opposition? Mostly very ordinary.
Mark, re "when he comes up against dogs with a lot more ability" - there are no such animals, mate, only ones with more experience but which cannot run time.
Big call on Rippin' Sam Not sure if you saw the race Bruce that Toranado was in last start but it was pretty ordinary including a few t3 dogs. I said I'm looking forward to the next 12 month of staying races. I'd say their is dogs with massive staying ability on the way up Magic Will: handful of starts 37.49 Bendigo Pepper Shiraz: Handful of starts broke track record 650m shep last nite Leprechaun Storm: Flying times over 600m building to its debut over 715m sandown Tuesday Bella Shima: Can run flying times and hopefully gets a chance to get to 715m this time in
I am known for making irrational statements! Stayers are bludgers FULL STOP!! (or most are). Greyhounds are spontaneous chasers, they peter out after 350mtrs. Some peter out at a slower rate than others. They are the 500m dogs. Some stayers can maintain a certain pace for longer. Tail off after a lap and make fifteen lengths in the back straight,looks good, but pretty sure you were not putting in early. Ask yourself, "why do stayers trial sprint times , one out, but tail off early in staying races. Also observe stayers going to the boxes, they are not exactly "off their chops". Observe sprinters going to boxes, their eyes are spinning like a four reeleR at the local R.S.L.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 21 Apr 2018 22:44
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Russ,
Not irrational at all. The facts generally support you.
Small correction - in the race context, the greyhound achieves its highest average speed at around 435m.
And, yes, quite a few smart distance dogs will run early times equivalent to sprinters - eg 720 dogs at Wenty running 280m times for the 1st section.
Rippin Sam - last night he allowed himself to be shuffled back then did little until nearing the home turn, then swamped all the leaders to win running away. Those leaders all faded, including Jagger, so he looked better than he really was. Still, a good solid run in 41.70 (a time which many of them have run). As I said earlier, a genuine stayer but has his limits.
And, I stand to be corrected, but my theory is that well conditioned 700m dogs walking to the boxes know they are facing a tough trip, not just a romp in the park. The exceptions are the ones which jump in front and hopefully hang on - ie smart chasers but not really strong types, but they win a lot of races when the opposition can't finish off.
One hope - there seems to be snippets of strength emerging from some of the American breeds now coming through. Where will that lead?
Dunno. Not my field.
Raymond Peter Fewings Australia (Verified User) Posts 248 Dogs 0 / Races 0 21 Apr 2018 22:50
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You blokes should get into politics. Without doubt these stayers are the equal of past stars. As was Fanta Bale. Regardless of whether they are front runners or grandstand finishers. Sometimes we old blokes wear rose coloured glasses when talking about the past.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3237 Dogs 6 / Races 0 21 Apr 2018 23:05
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Ray, I agree. Some have no idea about anything, especially the view on stayers. Thats why Bruce you dont train. Russ, that is irrational, especially when there are sprinters who are nonnies or bludgers. Theres a difference physiologically between a sprinter n stayer.
Trapeze Artist is a Tbred sprinter (Group winner) and a lazy track worker and gets beaten by maiden horses in track work, but hes bloody good and worth $20 Million at stud.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 22 Apr 2018 21:14
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Ray,
The colour of the glasses is always worth considering.
However, also consider that generally speaking today's sprinters are often running up to and breaking track records. Very occasionally, that happens with 600m dogs but virtually never with 700m dogs. There is a gradient there.
This accords with many comments over recent months about a lack of strength over 500m and the rapid growth of 400m races as a proportion of the total.
Over the last couple of years or so there has not been a stayer that would stay on the same page with Space Star, Sweet It Is or Miata.
Then you have the example of Xylia Allen which could do brilliant things over any distance - once. It could never back up 7 days later - never. It broke the 720m record at Wenty then compounded on the home turn a week later. This points to a need to look more closely into how various dogs are built.
Go further and you can find quite a few dogs that can stay but not in good enough time. They are plodders (humans are the same).
Some maintain that it is just part of the cycle but there is a lot of evidence that the upturn is not happening, nor is it likely to under today's circumstances. Why is for greater minds than mine to work out.
I don't Specsavers were around when the Cavemen were travelling the earth LOL
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2018 05:09
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I have just come from there. Sadly, I have only one good eye.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2018 05:11
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Mark,
"Not sure if you saw the race Bruce that Toranado was in last start but it was pretty ordinary including a few t3 dogs".
Exactly, but that's the norm these days although it is hard to tell with a few in WA. I still liked the way it finished off the race - the litter obviously have strength.
The old folk's home is littered with 600m dogs that could not handle the 700s but we can hope. Keep watch.
Terry Jordan Australia (Verified User) Posts 6018 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2018 05:43
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Bruce Teague wrote:
Mark,
"Not sure if you saw the race Bruce that Toranado was in last start but it was pretty ordinary including a few t3 dogs".
Exactly, but that's the norm these days although it is hard to tell with a few in WA. I still liked the way it finished off the race - the litter obviously have strength.
The old folk's home is littered with 600m dogs that could not handle the 700s but we can hope. Keep watch.
Brucey: a wins a win, you don't get any extra Prizemoney breaking a track record! Octagonal a Champion thoroughbred always won in tight finishes, never streeted his opposition. Would Winx still be the Public pin up girl if she only won by a length or less? (YES) I watched Lizrene when I was about 17, (Olympic Park) she knew where the finishing post was! No need to exert any extra energy. than was needed. You can only beat whats opposed to you.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 23 Apr 2018 21:36
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Terry,
I don't recall Octagonal racing against "T3" horses. And, yes, the prime objective of a good pack animal is to make sure it stays in front of the rest (which is also why we sometimes get fighting convictions).
However, my view, and my observation over decades, is that the idea is to achieve excellence. How do you measure that? By consistency, by strength, by durability and by speed. But mainly by speed. How did it run during education? What did it trial? With maturity, has it run faster? What info is shown on a sire's advertisement? What influences punters? Times, times, times. All that is what trainers and breeders talk about.
And, actually, some folk do offer bonuses for record breakers. Maybe there should be more?
Back to the starting subject. Are Torando Tears and Rippin Sam the same? No way. On evidence so far, Toranado would murder it. The ability to almost equal Miata's record is huge. Maybe that will change, but I doubt it.
Anyway, both are contributing to some improvement in the staying caper. The interesting thing is the sire was flat out getting 500m, so thanks mum.
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 24 Apr 2018 23:40
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Returning to my earlier comment ...
Last night Tritt Tritt faded over 715m. Did the same at earlier 720m run at WPK. So did Leprechaun Storm. Pepper Shiraz was injured.
Tornado Tears ran really well over 595m (on return from injury).
Both 715m races won in ordinary time (42.2 - 15 lengths outside record). Most dogs faded.
Mark Mihailovic Australia (Verified User) Posts 698 Dogs 1 / Races 0 25 Apr 2018 08:09
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Do your form a bit better bruce Track was harrowed the day before a race meet by the clever team at sandown and tritt tritt ran the same time as ebby ripper trialed one out so not going too bad I'd reckon. Toronado is clearly a freak when on the bunny
Bruce Teague Australia (Verified User) Posts 2092 Dogs 0 / Races 0 25 Apr 2018 23:25
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Mark, Maybe a length but that is arguable - tracks are harrowed and smoothed every week and this was the 5th race so it would have had more smoothing.
Ebby Ripper has one quality - it finishes on. Full stop.