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Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 06:39
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Extremely well said Mal,ha ha ha ha.
Malcolm Smart wrote:
fuck off , wasn't writing it for you..
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 28 Jan 2021 06:41
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A true measure of the "man". Lol
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 06:41
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Also well said Nathan,but not quite as well as Mal did lol.
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 07:03
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Well Sandro,they are entitled to their opinions,but just because one is a " prominent" journo" & the other 4 are "fairly prominent trainers",certainly doesn't mean Jack mate,just their opinions....unless of course, they possibly know the outcome ??.Also,if they think that by GRNSW being transparent & showing integrity is a waste of time & money to prove one way or the other, to restore confidence in the current system,sobeit.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
You seem to have all the answers, as usual
So EVERY trainer agrees with you?
Funny, I spoke to 4 fairly prominent trainers and a fairly prominent journalist and they all think its a waste of time and money
We will see what the INDEPENDENT REVIEW shows us
Then we will see who is awake or not
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 28 Jan 2021 07:07
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
So EVERY trainer you speak to agrees with you?
I must be speaking to all the dumb ones then.
Funny, I spoke to 4 fairly prominent trainers and a fairly prominent journalist at Wenty last night and they all think its a waste of time and money
We will see what the INDEPENDENT REVIEW shows us, then we will see who is awake or not
Nothing will come out of it. Even if they was an issue they will never admit to it.
Therefore, you will never get satisfaction out of it.
By the way Daryl I went through every runner in that race at Bathurst and the only runner that had any bias to any particular box across its career was the 8 dog, but 7 out of the 8 runners had a fairly even spread of boxes in all their starts
The only dog who had a run of boxes was the dog you mentioned was the 3 dog who 10 starts ago, had box 2 , 4 out of 5 times but since then has had an even spread
Honestly, if that is all you have to talk about when you go to the track then I would say that all those clubs should hire hot air balloonists as they would make a motza directing those resources into selling rides
Well obviously the trainers you speak to Sandro are in on the Deep State, Paedophilia Ring, Lefty Socialist Cabal that is the NSW box draw
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Jan 2021 07:08
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Daryl
So what are you saying?
Anyone who doesn't believe your theory must be stupid and dumb.
Because, thats what your telling me. Their opinions count for nothing in your book
Even though one of those trainers told me they haven't drawn box 1 this year with any of their dogs, they still think this review is nonsense and poppycock.
That's a pretty narrow-minded you have developed, didn't think you were like that
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 07:10
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The dog i used as an example is Carry The One,read my post again,then have a proper look at the pattern of boxes drawn,bugger me,it ain't hard mate. Oh,i have never said all dogs Sandro,only that it is very common.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
So EVERY trainer you speak to agrees with you?
I must be speaking to all the dumb ones then.
Funny, I spoke to 4 fairly prominent trainers and a fairly prominent journalist at Wenty last night and they all think its a waste of time and money
We will see what the INDEPENDENT REVIEW shows us, then we will see who is awake or not
Nothing will come out of it. Even if they was an issue they will never admit to it.
Therefore, you will never get satisfaction out of it.
By the way Daryl I went through every runner in that race at Bathurst and the only runner that had any bias to any particular box across its career was the 8 dog, but 7 out of the 8 runners had a fairly even spread of boxes in all their starts
The only dog who had a run of boxes was the dog you mentioned was the 3 dog who 10 starts ago, had box 2 , 4 out of 5 times but since then has had an even spread
Honestly, if that is all you have to talk about when you go to the track then I would say that all those clubs should hire hot air balloonists as they would make a motza directing those resources into selling rides
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Jan 2021 07:16
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daryl barrett wrote:
The dog i used as an example is Carry The One,read my post again,then have a proper look at the pattern of boxes drawn,bugger me,it ain't hard mate. Oh,i have never said all dogs Sandro,only that it is very common.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
So EVERY trainer you speak to agrees with you?
I must be speaking to all the dumb ones then.
Funny, I spoke to 4 fairly prominent trainers and a fairly prominent journalist at Wenty last night and they all think its a waste of time and money
We will see what the INDEPENDENT REVIEW shows us, then we will see who is awake or not
Nothing will come out of it. Even if they was an issue they will never admit to it.
Therefore, you will never get satisfaction out of it.
By the way Daryl I went through every runner in that race at Bathurst and the only runner that had any bias to any particular box across its career was the 8 dog, but 7 out of the 8 runners had a fairly even spread of boxes in all their starts
The only dog who had a run of boxes was the dog you mentioned was the 3 dog who 10 starts ago, had box 2 , 4 out of 5 times but since then has had an even spread
Honestly, if that is all you have to talk about when you go to the track then I would say that all those clubs should hire hot air balloonists as they would make a motza directing those resources into selling rides
So you handpicked one dog out of 8 who for 5 starts drew box 2 4 times out of 5 starts in a month period and boz 7 4 out of 5 times in another 1 month period
But overall that dog has had twenty five starts and has drawn box 2 and box 5 , five times apiece or 25% of the time
But box 5 wasn;t drawn consecutively, we will just conveniently forget about box 5's statistics for that dog, because it doesn;t meet your argument even thought it is its equally most drawn box in its career.
Therefore, I have to question who is trying to make the situation harder to understand here?
Its starting to sound like the Abbot and Costello routine
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1223 Dogs 13 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 07:35
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Dont worry Malcolm
Every trainer I speak to sees it and agrees
No one is saying the trainers are to blame , its the system Trainers receiving the cream are laughing at it also
So dont tell me it doesnt exist or its just a theory
Ill go further and include pre picked kennel boxes ??? Whats that about , why should anyone know before anyone gets to track what kennel your dog goes in ?? Dont say COVID , USE GLOVES for ticket hand out
How come Ive had 4 kennel 1s last five dogs .....?? Is that random also What are the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s next to the isle so your dog watches 50 other dogs get ready to race !
Think about this , 40 bits of paper in a hat and Ive managed to pick the same numbered papers every time 4 times in a row ! Wow I must be Houdini !!!! This would be a million to one .....oh sorry its a computer selected run apparently explained by MR Dicks
Yous really are kidding yourselves
And to use your theory Sandro , fields that arent full
So why is the kennel 1 and or kennel 2 even up for use when the whole area is sub standard and doesnt allow your dog to rest pre race with see through block gates
Is this welfare at its most professional ? Or is it following an apparent machine thats delivering a faultless procedure
I hardly think so
Wake up and start to use human integrity and common sense and stop all the crap and hot air talk as to how this computer generated system is acceptable and a nothing to see here approach is what our dogs are to adhere by
But dont forget the water bucket for welfare
Hypocrisy at its amateur best
So EVERY trainer you speak to agrees with you?
I must be speaking to all the dumb ones then.
Funny, I spoke to 4 fairly prominent trainers and a fairly prominent journalist at Wenty last night and they all think its a waste of time and money
We will see what the INDEPENDENT REVIEW shows us, then we will see who is awake or not
Nothing will come out of it. Even if they was an issue they will never admit to it.
Therefore, you will never get satisfaction out of it.
By the way Daryl I went through every runner in that race at Bathurst and the only runner that had any bias to any particular box across its career was the 8 dog, but 7 out of the 8 runners had a fairly even spread of boxes in all their starts
The only dog who had a run of boxes was the dog you mentioned was the 3 dog who 10 starts ago, had box 2 , 4 out of 5 times but since then has had an even spread
Honestly, if that is all you have to talk about when you go to the track then I would say that all those clubs should hire hot air balloonists as they would make a motza directing those resources into selling rides
No one called any trainer dumb or smart ??? No one said it isnt a waste of money or time ??? And of course admission to a flaw will be swept under the rug , is there any other industry way ? Who said its all we talk about at the track ? This is a forum particular for each topic Why wouldnt we air our dissatisfaction when bought forward ?
But youve still managed to gloss over the personal examples from myself and the odds of receiving 4 kennel 1s in a row and the odds to achieve this result simply wouldnt happen ?? Whats your explanation without further waffle or words never said by me and a valid response as to why poorly located kennels are being used when not needed and or pre picked kennel allocation to trainers might cause conjecture even if there is none to be found , simply due to the system thats relied on by a computer!
Or is this another fairytale Ive concocted along with all the other trainers I communicate with ? Your elite trainers and journalists obviously excluded from my admission
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Jan 2021 07:49
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Nathan
I don't know why you are bringing up why certain kennels are or aren't being used and why do I need to respond to it in the context of this topic?
Maybe they will invest more money to conduct an Independent Review into your problem if you scream loud enough.
Any they probably should look into that, as you say, its not fair that if there are 2 vacant kennels that the ones closest to the corridor be used.
In fact the configuration of all kennel blocks is something that money should be spent on, perhaps no kennels should be near a corridor or there should be adequate screening
That is a commonsense issue, but nothing to do with box draws.
And by the way, about making up fairytales, I never said anyone was elite, I just said they were prominent, in that they are well known because they have have been at the top of their game for a good period of time and because I know them not to be full of hot air.
If you or anyone else think this review is worth the money and time thats going to be spent on it, then thats fair enough, you are entitled to a valid opinion, as much as all of us.
I am not ridiculing your opinions, I am just trying to justify it in my mind why its required and what benefit it will serve
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1223 Dogs 13 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 08:15
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan
I don't know why you are bringing up why certain kennels are or aren't being used and why do I need to respond to it in the context of this topic?
Maybe they will invest more money to conduct an Independent Review into your problem if you scream loud enough.
Any they probably should look into that, as you say, its not fair that if there are 2 vacant kennels that the ones closest to the corridor be used.
In fact the configuration of all kennel blocks is something that money should be spent on, perhaps no kennels should be near a corridor or there should be adequate screening
That is a commonsense issue, but nothing to do with box draws.
And by the way, about making up fairytales, I never said anyone was elite, I just said they were prominent, in that they are well known because they have have been at the top of their game for a good period of time and because I know them not to be full of hot air.
If you or anyone else think this review is worth the money and time thats going to be spent on it, then thats fair enough, you are entitled to a valid opinion, as much as all of us.
I am not ridiculing your opinions, I am just trying to justify it in my mind why its required and what benefit it will serve
Im bringing kennel boxes to light as its governed under the same principle as box draws By computer !
The system needs review as Peoples hard work and time needs to be played out in whats deemed to be beyond fair game
If theres doubt in any way , remove it !
Whats the harm in having a system where the people who are responsible for keeping it alive are content 100% ?
Prominent/ elite ...... ball park similar meaning , it makes no sense either label
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Jan 2021 08:28
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Nathan
There is nothing wrong with participants having confidence in whatever systems are governing them, but also a cost/benefit analysis has to take place in any organization
I am not against the review, I just think that any adverse report will be buried and there will be no admission of any guilt and no one will be none the wiser and the powers that be will be seen to have done their job and listened
Its a cynical view I have but its one that I have seen played out before
For the industry's sake, I hope the review is truly independent and transparent and if there is a flaw then its been worth the expense
Malcolm Smart Australia (Verified User) Posts 12802 Dogs 19 / Races 34 28 Jan 2021 08:31
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan
There is nothing wrong with participants having confidence in whatever systems are governing them, but also a cost/benefit analysis has to take place in any organization
I am not against the review, I just think that any adverse report will be buried and there will be no admission of any guilt and no one will be none the wiser and the powers that be will be seen to have done their job and listened
Its a cynical view I have but its one that I have seen played out before
For the industry's sake, I hope the review is truly independent and transparent and if there is a flaw then its been worth the expense
Finally, why didn't you just say that in the first place...:-)
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 28 Jan 2021 08:48
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Malcolm Smart wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan
There is nothing wrong with participants having confidence in whatever systems are governing them, but also a cost/benefit analysis has to take place in any organization
I am not against the review, I just think that any adverse report will be buried and there will be no admission of any guilt and no one will be none the wiser and the powers that be will be seen to have done their job and listened
Its a cynical view I have but its one that I have seen played out before
For the industry's sake, I hope the review is truly independent and transparent and if there is a flaw then its been worth the expense
Finally, why didn't you just say that in the first place...:-)
Its a process Mal
I am just trying to get down to the basis of the justification for it
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1223 Dogs 13 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 08:50
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Nathan
There is nothing wrong with participants having confidence in whatever systems are governing them, but also a cost/benefit analysis has to take place in any organization
I am not against the review, I just think that any adverse report will be buried and there will be no admission of any guilt and no one will be none the wiser and the powers that be will be seen to have done their job and listened
Its a cynical view I have but its one that I have seen played out before
For the industry's sake, I hope the review is truly independent and transparent and if there is a flaw then its been worth the expense
Agree 100%
But its not the findings that have any bearing at all on outcome or cause Like we already know , its fruitless What isnt , is the fact it has been bought to attention in the first place
This fact is enough alone and why it has to be corrected ASAP Not what the findings will be
Cheers
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 28 Jan 2021 09:16
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Sandro,what I meant was just because they are " prominent ",doesn't necessarily mean their options should carry more weight,just as any of any of our opinions may be,nor wrong or right,& I am definitely not narrowed minded,tunnel visioned,I also don't believe that I am always right & cast aside others opinions,nor do expect that others to agree with my opinions & observations.Maybe I haven't explained my concern in a way that can be understood? But if in the wash up,if it is found that there's nothing wrong with Random generated computer system,I will happily accept it,but I believe that if anything is for the betterment of our industry,I am all for it,even it it takes spending money & time to achieve that,especially so where transparency & integrity is needed to reinstate confidence in every aspect of Greyhound Racing,even more so now since the major reforms imposed upon us all,again,for the betterment of our industry,& you are right,I am not like that. Cheers Sandro.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Daryl
So what are you saying?
Anyone who doesn't believe your theory must be stupid and dumb.
Because, thats what your telling me. Their opinions count for nothing in your book
Even though one of those trainers told me they haven't drawn box 1 this year with any of their dogs, they still think this review is nonsense and poppycock.
That's a pretty narrow-minded you have developed, didn't think you were like that
Kevin Wright Australia (Verified User) Posts 5708 Dogs 1 / Races 1 28 Jan 2021 09:40
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Fella's ..Lets look at Science.. It is time to reprogram your minds the big RESET is upon us
Researchers typically use random numbers supplied by a computer, but these are generated by mathematical formulas and so by definition cannot be truly random.
Fact
For many years, computer scientists have been looking for a way to generate truly random numbersthe random number generator found on most home and business computers is far from random due to hardware limitations..
Jason Caley Australia (Verified User) Posts 385 Dogs 6 / Races 0 29 Jan 2021 07:14
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Kevin Wright wrote:
Fella's ..Lets look at Science.. It is time to reprogram your minds the big RESET is upon us
Researchers typically use random numbers supplied by a computer, but these are generated by mathematical formulas and so by definition cannot be truly random.
Fact
For many years, computer scientists have been looking for a way to generate truly random numbersthe random number generator found on most home and business computers is far from random due to hardware limitations..
Kev - I used to do programming. The way around this is simply Random * Random / Random.
The statistical probability of the number not being random is so small it would take a lot of numbers to prove the point. We would not have secure encryption or online banking these days without being able to generate random.
It can be done and the way I am giving is a simple version that would never be used in banking apps but it is good enough for these purposes. Let's say there's a maximum field of 8 (which is increasingly rare these days) then the chances you will not observe the random element or perceive a pattern are extremely high.
That said, you get the grading algorithms - what we commonly call 'guidelines' (on paper and published) done by the computer couple that with a random draw and we're in a much better situation than present.
Shannon Boyd Australia (Verified User) Posts 22 Dogs 1 / Races 0 30 Jan 2021 21:55
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the simple way to get around this is to have all box draws done online live so everyone can see.
Daryl Barrett Australia (Verified User) Posts 1739 Dogs 1 / Races 0 31 Jan 2021 02:56
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Good idea Shannon,but lets go back to two " bingo barrels", one for the dogs drawn & another for their box drawn, IE, Dogs drawn in alphabetical order,then the next barrell draws it's box number.
Shannon boyd wrote:
the simple way to get around this is to have all box draws done online live so everyone can see.
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