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I notice Gordette has now had 2 litters. One to My Redeemer and one to Blazin' Bomber. The first litter appear to be average and one from the second litter has one it's first race start at Maitland.
In your opinion Graeme, who would you be putting her to if she was yours?
Sorry Tony, I missed this in all the kerfuffle. I don't usually give sire recommendations, even less so for bitches I haven't had a great interest in.
I can see what the breeder is trying to achieve with both matches and like them both, especially the Blazin' Bomber one because Bombastic Shiraz up close in both pedigrees all but ensures the litter will have the strength lacking in Gordette. IMO she already needs another outcross to go along with that '3x3' as well so there's two positives.
Without knowing much about the bitch I couldn't give you much more than that.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 25 Jul 2021 17:00
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Ice Trucker X Gordette an awesome pedigree, I was looking at the 5th Dam pedigree
https:/ CLICK HERE Checkout percentage A Beaut damline beaut pedigree
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 26 Jul 2021 07:56
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Thank Christ for that, enjoy everyone. Cheers
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 28 Jul 2021 11:35
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Whatever breeding philosophy you have it needs to be genetically viable, or theoretically logical. If you can't specificallly answer 'why' you think something in a pedigree works with either or both of those criteria then it's only an opinion at best.
Too many generalisations in this topic with the WHY part of it.
You can go research any breeding line and find crosses that always work with that line. But this is a new era in breeding where the cross is very important but now more than ever iv noticed rearing is becoming more important. I personally think the days of 100m by x amount runs is outdated and now letting pups roam in big paddocks in groups is becoming more evident to me that the better race dogs are coming from these rearers. Yes people will get on here and point out dogs been reared in back yards etc etc . But I think youll find the % coming from big paddocks rearing is better than 100m runs. Then also its upto the breaker this has been turned on its head aswell where breakers now seem to break in two dogs together instead of breaking dogs in by them selfs and teaching them To chase by them selfs . They say one dog they couldnt get going so they put them with a hard chaser to teach them. Most of the time you teaching the nine chaser another bad habit in chasing other dogs . So in summing up breeding is very important and some broodys throw to anything some you might only get two good litters out of. But the rearing and breaking in is just as important.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 29 Jul 2021 02:23
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Shannon boyd wrote:
You can go research any breeding line and find crosses that always work with that line.....
Hi Shannon,
What I'm saying is breeders need to take it a step further and find out why those crosses work with a particular line. So when you say this for example:
Shannon boyd wrote:
.....some broodys throw to anything some you might only get two good litters out of....
you need to try to work out either genetically or with a logical breeding theory why this is the case, that in turn may take a breeder to the next level.
I remember PAW saying breeding is a bit like building a house where the pedigree is the foundation of the house. The difference being if there's a problem with the foundation of the house you can usually fix it, whereas if there's a problem with a pedigree it's not something you can immediately fix.
btw I probably agree with what you are saying with the paddock rearing. Cheers.
You can go research any breeding line and find crosses that always work with that line.....
Hi Shannon,
What I'm saying is breeders need to take it a step further and find out why those crosses work with a particular line. So when you say this for example:
Shannon boyd wrote:
.....some broodys throw to anything some you might only get two good litters out of....
you need to try to work out either genetically or with a logical breeding theory why this is the case, that in turn may take a breeder to the next level.
I remember PAW saying breeding is a bit like building a house where the pedigree is the foundation of the house. The difference being if there's a problem with the foundation of the house you can usually fix it, whereas if there's a problem with a pedigree it's not something you can immediately fix.
btw I probably agree with what you are saying with the paddock rearing. Cheers.
Pedigree may well be the foundation of a house but without building the actual house you don't have a house! Of course, if you try to live on the foundation then you're living in the poor house. ;)
Think of the current generation as the house.
Tom Rees Australia (Verified User) Posts 75 Dogs 1 / Races 0 29 Jul 2021 10:20
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Blazing cartier x barcia bale, best to the best with aim to get more speed and size.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5956 Dogs 8 / Races 0 29 Jul 2021 10:48
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Haha Graeme, there was more to it than that.....what I stated was the first step in a topic which I cant remember the name of, so I can't search for it in that small search engine. Used to like reading it.
Anyway PAW had I think 4 other areas where he likened pedigrees to building/completing his house, something like rearing, breaking, aftercare and training........can't exactly remember, I used to type in 'gyprock' and the topic wld appear.....No more!
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 29 Jul 2021 21:30
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Then theres the great Jim Coleman who said if the dog cant run, he cant make it run. So there will always be an order in the entire obvious priority.
1. PEDIGREE - without it you have nothing, just an expensive dream. So, the foundations very well put! 2. Implanting by vet 3. Whelping 4. Rearing including care of the brood at all times. 5. Break in 6. Pre-training / training
Unfortunately in this game to get it all correct is a minefield. Takes longevity in this game to get it absolutely right!
You stuff any of it up along the way...youve got nothing.
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 29 Jul 2021 22:36
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Then theres the great Jim Coleman who said if the dog cant run, he cant make it run. So there will always be an order in the entire obvious priority.
1. PEDIGREE - without it you have nothing, just an expensive dream. So, the foundations very well put! 2. Implanting by vet 3. Whelping 4. Rearing including care of the brood at all times. 5. Break in 6. Pre-training / training
Unfortunately in this game to get it all correct is a minefield. Takes longevity in this game to get it absolutely right!
You stuff any of it up along the way...youve got nothing.
Yes I recall Jim Coleman quote on a Pizer video back in the 90s Quote. I can give a dog everything it needs, the only thing I cannot give a dog is ABILITY.
Haha Graeme, there was more to it than that.....what I stated was the first step in a topic which I cant remember the name of, so I can't search for it in that small search engine. Used to like reading it.
Anyway PAW had I think 4 other areas where he likened pedigrees to building/completing his house, something like rearing, breaking, aftercare and training........can't exactly remember, I used to type in 'gyprock' and the topic wld appear.....No more!
Paul Wheeler admits that every time he designs a mating his primary goal is to produce a future broodbitch.
If I get a top class male from that mating, then that is a bonus, he said.
This is what he did when putting Dyna Beauty to Bartrim Bale. The mating brought in the half sisters Gold Rush Bale and Dyna Beauty 2x1 into the resultant pedigree.
He got Topgun winner David Bale who was also a finalist in the Australian Cup and is now a promising sire in Ireland. But he also got a high class race bitch called Bala Bale who, since going to stud, has produced Dawkins Bale (by Turanza Bale) the runner-up to Fernando Bale in the Golden Easter Egg.
Wheeler says he believes in the majority of cases the pups will get their best attributes from the female.
But he says the best of pedigrees can fail.
I believe the genetics of a pedigree is 35 percent of its success, he said. The rest is the rearing, education and training.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1954 Dogs 56 / Races 2 30 Jul 2021 05:03
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There's a lot of very knowledgeable breeders, but a lot of big breeders it's weight in numbers. The good pups produced cover for the slower ones
I've never heard a breeder say they were given a free straw off a struggling stud dog/studmaster and fluked a star ; )
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 30 Jul 2021 09:48
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Matt Griffiths wrote:
There's a lot of very knowledgeable breeders, but a lot of big breeders it's weight in numbers. The good pups produced cover for the slower ones
I've never heard a breeder say they were given a free straw off a struggling stud dog/studmaster and fluked a star ; )
This is pretty close...Paul Wheeler had no problem using Kelsos Fusileer when no one else in Australia was interested in using him. It got that bad trying to get Aussies to use Kelsos Fusileer...the connections were offering buy a Kelsos Fusileer and get 2 of their other sires thrown in for free!! There was a topic on him on Data (cant find it) and NGF ads as well.
Paul Wheeler does it all the time...uses the exact sire needed for his bitch. Commercial or non-commercial. Why because he wants to breed the very best he can!! Not just the expensive dream....Fernando Bale (Kelsos Fusileer) and Fanta Bale (David Bale) arguably his two best sired by non-commercial sires...
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 09 Nov 2022 21:46
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One step closer to a Wow litter hopefully. With our nippy bitch Instafamous being inseminated to the speedster last week.
And Fernando Bale crossed with Fabregas a big Group 1 winning cross. Both sharing a number of like genes. All in play in the creation of sire choice Wow.
Fingers crossed!
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15478 Dogs 0 / Races 1 11 Nov 2022 04:38
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Many times Breeders select the wrong dog. Have a look at a bitch called pats lass. she went to a couple of top stud dogs that produced cats. They then went to Aussie and got the outcross needed and now a litter of rockets.
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15478 Dogs 0 / Races 1 11 Nov 2022 09:50
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I have a Aussie x cold twist bitch 7 days into her education ,boxes we'll, chases her bum off. Ripped the lure apart today., a bigger bite than a crazed croc.
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