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Group producing sire stats


Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

20 Sep 2021 05:08


 (0)
 (0)


can anyone help with this in reasonably current Australian figures?



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

20 Sep 2021 22:55


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Grant,

It would be wonderful if someone could connect the Stud Book with the form database so that anyone could dial it up in a flash.

You might have to talk to Vic as the people writing up Ozchase would not have a clue. GA even less.

The 1950s?

The GD stuff is the best there is but you would have to do a lot of manual work to find out. Maybe Tony could take this on board as a future project. The breeding data is good as far as it goes but not so much the race data.

Or ask the gallops - they have lots of useful material that the dogs are missing.


Michael Eberand
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 845
Dogs 3 / Races 0

21 Sep 2021 02:52


 (3)
 (0)


Grant Dunphy wrote:

can anyone help with this in reasonably current Australian figures?


GCA oversees group racing and keeps stats.

Here is the link EXTERNAL LINK
2021 rankings currently:-

1 FERNANDO BALE
2 BARCIA BALE
3 ALLEN DEED
4 DYNA DOUBLE ONE
5KC AND ALL
6 ASTON DEE BEE
7 AUSSIE INFRARED
8 MEPUNGA BLAZER
9 KINLOCH BRAE
10 WORM BURNER
11 ZAMBORA BROCKIE
12 SH AVATAR
13 MY BRO FABIO
14 MISTER TWISTER
15 OAKS ROAD
16 COSMIC RUMBLE
17 FABREGAS
18 COLLISION
19 KEYBOW
20 PETER ROCKET




Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

21 Sep 2021 22:21


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Michael,

As a potential auditor I am sure you know to look behind the published figures. Despite all the work they put in, the GCA data is highly questionable, especially that related to breeding.

1. Everything is confined to 12 months or less, meaning that the lifetime performance of a sire or dam will not be shown.
2. I understand why they concentrate on Group racing only but the progeny of a sire or dam will always be measured on the basis of wins anywhere, not just over 500s in town.
3. Injury can cause a dog to jump in and out of any of the rankings at any time.
4. Luck and box draws also play a part.

That is why I called for our authorities to grasp the nettle and modernise the statistical relationship between breeding and racing form and then publish it regularly.

EG as a non-expert, I would want to know whether Fernando or Barcia progeny deliver 10%, 20% or 30% winners from their litters. So, too, with dams (how about Sobbing Sal?).

In that context the GD racing info is never complete so cannot be used for analysis - as I have advised Tony.

There will always be a host of other queries which warrant discussion - for example, why are Fernando and Barcia figures in a different order from state to state?

A comparable issue is that prize money rankings need to be corrected for inflation (go Rapid Journey!). This is not hard to do. And while you are at it, you could do the same for prize money levels over the years (which VGOBTA has pointed to recently).

GA is obviously not competent to do any of this so it is time to create a special unit which can do the job properly. It's critical to the advancement of the industry.



Grant Dunphy
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 743
Dogs 4 / Races 1

22 Sep 2021 09:56


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thanks Michael & Bruce.

It's Lulu Forty I want to choose a sire for.

She has been to Feral Franky & they are nearly 5 months.

I am always hoping for strong 500 metre dogs & love training stayers so am always
looking to breed with sires that could break 500 &/or 500+ records.

Any ideas out there please.



posts 5